I cannot be owned by scientific method. You're six. Send him tall and. Creature that's been seen my many little life you know. And de Ferran good morning mining boom Herron online inning and news features and yeah me. He lying then yeah real mania apple is lying game. It also shape shifting mentioned you. My experience it's an experience. And I. They'll come Wednesday and the East Coast many were stuck in between welcome to beyond reality reveal myself Jason Ellison who. Host the awesome Jimmie Johnson he ever have those blue organic. Chips the foreign blue corn those chips that are blue corn. How are yes look at the progress that we're discovery's mission ever had just made the mistake of beating a bunch of those before the show and now. I'm Michael. Again again no saliva in my mouth. I need something to drink very quickly are more people to continue lets you. He had to do that Ritz cracker challenge thing we have generally got to put in light that would desert five or six them in your mouth once in tribute. All I know zone and a choking if that happened but it's just a total integration. But anyways welcome the show everybody we im we've got a great show tonight honestly this where are we talking with Amy Jacobson. Says journalist. Bestselling author. 2016 Pulitzer Prize finalist her books area 51 operation paper clip. And the Pentagon's brain where New York Times best sellers. And we're going to be talking there about those but also about her new book phenomenon the secret history of the US government's investigation. Into ES PE in single niece is which comes out this month yeah it's pretty cool stuff too I mean. You know how many years do do we go by where a government or scientists scientific community or whomever. Looks at you know things like a cycle kinesis sir ESPN says oh that's all fake salsa it's all fabricated yet. Behind the scenes the government is sponsoring those very scientists to experiment with those abilities and try to actually use them for whether it's diplomatic advantage. Or weaponized them or some other. I guess less then you know above board purpose. Well look at the the stargate project where now we're not referring to the show. But the stargate project was an actual thing set up by the defense. Intelligence agency. And the US army. In 1970 around Fort Meade where they were literally using annually invests in late twenty million dollars into this. But they were tried and they're setting up a normal viewing and and all of these these other things and doing different tests on them and and using it says Chinese in the full potential of course back I think it was 91 or whatever that they stopped they stopped it but the fact of the matter is. In days they were looking very deeply into this. Now the government stop something you gotta wonder do they really stop it or it has taken on its own of the branch or a lot of times they'll. Move move some research slight into. I differ a laboratory your. College somewhere else. I'm I'm them incarcerate sometimes you over and over two hours we will ask who was so they can they're not subject to the rules of the country here. But that's the thing that's most fascinating about all this is that they've made products for this stuff and it's very seldom talked about a reported. But annie's gonna talk about that with us tonight. Yeah so it's going to be a great topic and then throughout the week tomorrow night we're going to be talking with. Edward Haslem and analysis is is adjusting how he talking about his book. Doctor Mary's Hmong. Now I know it sounds like an adult book pro heroin but it's how Lamar how the murder of a doctor a secret laboratory in the wall once and cancer causing monkey viruses. Were linked to Lee Harvey Oswald to the JFK assassination. And just more epidemic Sen himself. Again that's a thread and I'm really anxious to learn about how do we go from Purcell title late doctor Mary's monkey. Through only a song sucks well recycling rate went to that I think or child's book maybe dissect it and whatever on the and then Thursday actually got a great show too because rendering Lloyd Auerbach. Best exploited the mental list author all around just great guy person ecologist and I've known Lloyd for a long long time. And he's just phenomenal person talk with these a pioneer in the field internal studies and it's a it's always great to have him on I'm talking them. Ton of information ton of knowledge in ton of insight nose into that as well. On an enemy Thursday night and of course Friday is as a best of program as it is every week. Yeah now if you haven't yet head over to FaceBook dot com slash beyond reality radio like the FaceBook page. Also if you're listening and any degree stations that we thereon on the head to beyond reality radio dot com click the listen line you can join us in our online chat. I javy and I heroism there as well. And just hanging house on it's it's a disagree community but also from the beyond reality radios a dot com site. He can download the injury down the iPhone app they're free apps that allow you to listen to the show alive. Chat with us also listen to pass episodes. This is a great app if you do download the show on iTunes do us a favor. In just read it because that helps really push it forward Al Skinner adults are more for people to be able find. And over a lot of people out there listening to the show though acres and it's downloading 101520000. Times a day each show them and we really appreciate the support. But it would just help us a lot more fear generated. There are a lot of people that done just can't stay up as does bleed is the need to do here the show lies and we've had people call the show before and say you know like I set my a my podcast and download automatically and use it is my quote local morning news and getting ready for work in the morning so. You know that's perfectly for the call now but it's a perfectly illegitimate legitimate way to listen to the show and you mentioned Chad just a minute ago Jane is that to say my comments about blue corn stirred up. A very strange conversation. Those blue corn chips that I had earlier or get it whatever the heck they were there were blow I promise you that that's really stirred up a serious conversation and chat. But when you'll win you'll like the site in you'll like the other FaceBook page and everything else were costly updating you with the new channels were popping up on and we Aaron out somewhere on a 10000 plus channels now in every week grading a few more well we just added W and the EL in Melbourne Florida. A WG AML in Travers city Michigan. W ol' left and in lacrosse Wisconsin. Welcome beyond reality radio friendly there's going to be more next week that we're gonna media listing it as well. So and make sure you tune in it do you remember a ball all foot 23 months ago I was talking you about a story where they were. Tom direct talks about trying to re freeze the Arctic. Young human we talk parent or talk about setting a ball these these pumps and the ball these wind powered pumps. All right so the crazy plan to re freezing Arctic is it's actually getting a trial run now and Switzerland. Is too soon as an inert soon. I know. Hudson here's what are so back in February physicists announced an outlandish plan to rephrase the Arctic in who's buying and selling ten million wind powered pumps over the ice caps replenish. The and dwindling sea ice. The idea of course and it's a wild idea if you think about it but. No one really thought that sign anybody would funded the researchers now Switzerland has just launched a trial. That will see if they can sustain an entire glacier through summer using nothing but snow machines in the interest of yes so in. If the team manages to successfully preserve small artificial glacier at the foot of the glacier in the southwestern part of Switzerland throughout the years hottest months. It's hope that they can apply the techniques the country's natural giant. The mortar rush glacier. One of the most massive glaciers in the eastern Alps and is currently losing thirty to forty meters every year. It could be that and sincerely hope for a half of that equation if you think about it. But communities thousands of snow machines blasting it with artificial sleet. And they're talking about. They expect that they can add an extra three. Three feet two inches. A C basis just by doing. I have been no idea that science works but does sounds like tease me he take that same technology entry to a year round ski resorts. Well in Narnia technically your best sentiment in. All the amusing start wishing spoke jail or just and I and send their in their wind powered thank god to duke and you could you match in the electorate Norma beaten nine pitchman repopulates. Exercises its ten million when powered pumps crazy. That's insane so but I guess later said it was when I like talked about a couple months back it was of course were those ideas it's just so far fetched you never see it happening. But it looks like Switzerland's gonna take on the challenge and test it out it was good for them to bless the Swiss. The snowmaking and chocolate gotta love them and watches. In put money. I get money Heidi edit them money or wondering who's a great place to hide money that's. All right let us take a break when we come back we'll bring our guest in any Jacobson who will be joining us talking about her books. I area 51 operation paper clip the Pentagon's brain and her newest book called phenomenon. Will be doing all that we come back you'll soon Jason. OK okay you've heard me talking about scary time but now is the time to make your plans to attend the celebrity guest list is being assembled the movie premieres are being planned the parties are being organized and the point is guaranteed. Then next Erica time is scheduled for June 2 for the force in Springfield Massachusetts is a great town that I did even better when scary time arrives to court details and keep track of the latest insult this. The website that's silicon dot com that's scary time. Dot com we'll see get there. Beyond reality radio and Jason on CM TV John. Senator telephone numbers 8446877669. And it just a moment we're going to bring our guest Danny Jacobs and ended before we do day to day. Once again you know those the rumors the questions are swirling around in Chad and elsewhere about the future of ghost hunters and what's going on anything else he tells at this point. Well arm. Now and I'm not a lot of can say right now because things are still. I'm being worked on comes the tricky innocent and now that it's a legally I key and I went back and there's a there's a lot of big things honestly that are in the works more and TV of course I'm. Motion pictures that no more you know about that stuff to Judy com and so there's a lot of things but. They're trying to work through. The and remember we first did ghost hunters. When I first we first on the pilot. And then scifi agreed to do everything it was about a year and a half from what I did say Taylor it takes a long to win yet to win the show actually came out all right we only. I will pull the show from scifi back in October yes it is still so fresh yes so I know feels like forever because we've always been. There's always been shows of ghost hunters on scifi channel them and I think that's silly show that there have has ratings penny can I think you're so another personal but so yeah it. But there's there's a lot coming up there really is and I look forward to two when I can clinic announces. Yeah and I think everybody does. In the meantime we've got a great radio program here and tonight we have a fantastic guest her name is any Jacobs and she's a journalist and an author her website is any. A NN I. SEN dot com. And her books include area 51 operation paper clip the Pentagon's brain. And her most recent book cult phenomenon and Ellis bring any into the show here any welcome to be on reality radio great to have you on tonight. I. Now listen this is in these topics or something that we talk about a lot of times. Whether it's government projects normally we're talking earlier project the stargate project that they worked on. Let alone a bunch of other things and it's always neat soon. Tools to discuss these things and find out really how owned all the government was analog these areas. Thank you for having me I mean I'm right at the lord black and US. Security and secret. And there's never short agencies very controversial. Ideas that keep coming up again and again animal's mind where contacts. They currently is long narrative. Time. Now E'Twaun being 450 pages but that's straight shop along re. While yeah before we get into it those individual topics which were gonna turn it covers many of them as we tend tonight tell us what yourself I mean he you don't wake up one day and start reading about secret government project tied to get there. Oh my goodness couldn't do look the journalist is to never talk about herself I try to be good neutral journalist. Right down the middle but I go you could try something underneath. Hands with the tell us that. Tell us about yourself what I religious or take an interest in the super listeners of talk a journalism and then. These topics of particular when you just heard don't they start churning up on your radar. Well I was a comparison writer. Tan at a reporter. I wrote for the Los Angeles Times magazine. And I really got a lucky lucky break as a reporter. One. Man eat dinner party and an elderly gentleman I'm talking elderly 87 time. Com. Leaned over to mean that I enjoy reading what you write about tears and and apple they have got a great story for EU. And you know a lot of people say that the reporter that what he told me is that. The Miami had just peacock I'd. Like swear. Going back to the I in our actions and that he was. Invented skilled technology for the C. And it is remarkable because I hadn't earned him for almost a decade that. And only stock in could be this you know let. Retired. Aircraft engineer because I knew he worked for Lockheed had no idea that he spotted. By claimed his. Connecticut town he worked on the UTU and secret CI. Plane could be twelve ox cart. And that looked like had been developed out of line and you know in learning his story about. High technology. Style program. Pretty much figured out. Quickly that oh my god that to any area. And then came named Atlantic. And he introduced me to do you know the higher. And the engineers. And from then I'm in two security card and that's how until that book. You know stories. At Indy time. Individual to market at peak days before it and Nolan finished well you know had a burst into reporter about. Or especially when even you knew this person for a decade but you had no idea that he was working on all this top secret classified. I'm classified things were. Then it's incredible and then when they finally declassified and he was able to to open up to you about it. Them in them she must've been a real shell shocked. I mean it was being built and the cannot eating me alive or at least I. I did secret lives of others you know I looked at look at people and an entirely different way especially at a old men in baseball cap that maybe have like. The US that's something or other because you know. In my experience now having written four books mode and because I read about the Cold War. And because they're right the intelligence community and the defense are. Most of my most common eating sources in their eighties and nineties. And alternate will be sitting in a place. Doing interviews and you know the way crystal come up significantly what male model ban coming up for subtext and I think agreed to. She has no idea. I mean the knowledge that these guys have especially. You know from working in need. In the world for decades. And I think it's critical to have an awareness people have really interest story. Yeah we're talking with any Jacobson journalist author Irwin said his any Jacobson that ends and SEN dot com. She's written several books including area 51 operation paper clip the Pentagon's brain and her new spoke phenomenon we're gonna take a break. When we come back we're gonna get into some detail I know what these books talk about some really really fascinating things. If you have questions the following numbers 844687766. Dying and talk freely for a 46877669. Newest addition yeah. They beyond reality radio friends and you know most of the guests featured on beyond reality Radiohead books and other interesting offerings for our listeners and now he's made it even easier for you to get a hold of them just visit the beyond reality read your web. Get beyond reality radio dot com and click on the gas tab in the menu header from there you'll see recent beyond reality radio guests with a short five help and some of the things they're offering are beyond reality radio listeners took. Look on whatever you're interested in anything order street from there it couldn't be easier that's beyond reality radio dot com click on the guest tab in the menu and then simply sit back and enjoy beyond reality. Don't forget that's beyond reality radio dot com just click on the guest menu headings. And then you'll find what you want and thanks for listening to beyond reality radio. On reality and radio was Jason James C or telephone number. Received 446877669. We invite you Kafka questions one joint program and anyway. And so we're talking with any Jacobson journalist bestselling author 2016 Pulitzer Prize finalist in her books at area 51 operation paper clip of the Pentagon's brain. Where New York Times best selling books and she's also got a new one that just came around phenomenon the secret history of the US government's investigation into. Picture sensory perception in cycle kinesis. Yeah and any before you to break this is gonna out of the order than I expected we talk about these things but you brought up area 5100 obviously that's the name of one of your books of the title one of your books let's talk about area 51. You got a lot of information from from contacts had a lot of discussions and interviewed a lot of people related to that secret base. It seems that not a lot of people are able to get that kind of disclosure. Other than just knowing the right people how were you able to walk away with all this information. Well I actually can't before Craig and I and I'm not the one pick it up right yet known Nolan has just finished economic. Ku worked out there on on the number of secret spy claimed for the CIA and the air force. And in learning used to be introduced me to. You know the next source and I think that's the best way for journalists being able to put together a page booklet to and the irony. He kind of me technique you know the you can defeat bill. These players who are really on the ground and access. QT. Did you know the ground truth because so much of what is written about areas safety on an Alter my new book phenomenon. The appeal with the clinic programs I mean there's so much speculation are also what I kinda. People tend to take one bit of information and kind of extrapolate on an analyzed it. You know from there. It's sort of been off a weenie from the cold heart attacks. And if you stick to the sources could really find these incredibly dramatic story in the police and I read that book. Or more most people hear about area 51 their first thing they think about is a Roswell crash and all that and aliens being sent. Aliens spaceships being sent to a certain location and in all your research did you find them more it's just that we're testing. They're testing new technology out that way or did you didn't did and were you able to come across any of that other information. You know I think clinical reason why Eric or percussion rumbling that valor act it was on the list for like sixteen Lee. Part of that because. In the end typical. IA report. Very shocking information and I think at you know one. It would give acutely. It was in this produces which received. Conspiracy there group told me you know that's so crazy and we don't believe. And a vary speed. Group you know foreign policy an. Element we now wish in. So. Not get ridiculous idea and by. And decoded. That. And it's funny because in the air to your broad question. So much of what one on the continent of Africa it is secret place in time a secret nuclear test. Com that's essentially decide the straight guy. And what a perfect place to keep everything. I critical. Element Eric nuclear tests. And knocked out in the desert. Interviewed engineers. Exploded a dramatic spy plane and the dirty ground. All kinds of creating tucked. In the hand of this massive portrait of corrupt. I. Mean feel like this one source told by the way the only source in the brokerage. And that is because what eco. And he remained. Interesting attack on all of it and of course I mean. Area 51 kind of scene for you know Roswell alien conspiracy. And got some very real cute daughter Mary Mary. Well I had no idea that area 51 was approximately the same size of the state I live and I live in Rhode Island so too no I. It's that billions while politicians say that grew well let us policy in the country Malia. Yeah upload area secure itself is not but it's in kind. Of the secret. Or rather it classified training facility called the Nevada test containing. That is the size. Of restaurant. And area 51 is not one. You know twenty or thirty area. And you know why letters thirty it and they have all these random numbers its own mystery and a cut the year at number of different. Kerry is out there area 25 was where. Look at nuclear reactor and Carrie at thirteen. Top security. It's committee. That book was just unbelievable research report and and in the way it kind of you know from MacBook and that reporting. Sprung forth all of my. Well and from somebody who myself I've done a lot of work with a the United States government and we actually gotten had pentagon clearance because we knew we wanted to do bunch of things in film bunch of things are Wright Patterson air force base. And to see how much actually goes on you secure and therefore spacious anchor at W fighter planes and all this other stuff. But the things that they're working on. It's just it's mind blowing. To see all the different departments that are going on there we are laser technology leader in all these different areas. And there are a lot of those some of the areas that. I can't discuss because they've fallen top secret. But Tom. And it's just but it's amazing because chimps it's a world that it's totally. Soften inclusive world that all these different things that are being worked on in these different areas. And I think that what you're saying I haven't actually concurrently and go out in the current account sprained. They're the most recent book and the Pentagon to bring refers to dark which the content. Advanced research projects agency. And interestingly. Erica leaves. All of them technology and it's the single most powerful. Military. And technology agency in the world and kooky people of Kurdistan. They haven't three billion dollar a year budget and half and 1915. Created. And he and many of our Kirk I'm here committed quote. Are places like unity the air force meter. Wright Patterson airforce base. You know your day they were quick. Military facilities where civilian. Technology companies. Are they work with universities. Creamy. I can't applications which can get weapon. Bring aspect to the area fifth to one conversation. Are the things that you described in the book and some of the what you say or really. Relational things that you bring out it toward the end of the book or those things still going on there today. You know I read about. A project that went on in 1951. Hand that. Allegedly. Involved in remained Roswell crash. And it is very much tied up in the national genes are. Of what happens. That program. Actually called me by a source who worked our program. Had no known need to know an immediate. Need to delegate carbon Enid area fifteen long and it would work there hasn't called TSI. Clearance top secret. Secret compartmentalized. And nation clear. And interestingly this protocol behind those clearances kind of not apply in markets like it proposal in the mystery within them in the box. On and so when you work on any one program and whether it you know. The alleged fraud will remain program. Crash remain program. Or the UT I completely out tree you don't now if we don't need to know about the other programs in fact. What I learned is that ilk the guy is working on Sunday. Wings say. Have no need to know about the guy that what the guys were in a kind of broadly speaking but it's very. Accurate in terms. Not going to there's no way of knowing. For one want to steal anything outside it owns. Ground his own program. We FactSet. I often say that I've reported on these you know a huge amount of programs that never condoned a couple of and I called out to as you can imagine. I sector and we know how well we see it the expert is black. Tiny triangle of the big iceberg that's below the surface water. Then imagine a flag. Planted on popped an aide Kirk I think that's what I report. And what we don't know is you know. The above ground it Kirk and everything beanie it's a story. You can match it narrative out there and it's absolutely took on what is going on you know certainly is sources diners have no line. And assure interviewing these folks you're getting the story and putting in all together. Those folks betraying any confidences or any clearances were they talking out of school what what was the status of them as they were telling these stories. Into it too big issue an opponent accurately critical to hear the and and I and I do I talk to scientists and spies engineers and security guards they all have yet. We're on top program special access programs and highly kind of they there there are all of these individuals like true Petri straight on I really don't. Were quick whistle blowers cursing because it to different kind of reporting. On our working. He individuals here who. How are very aware that there programs the part of the program that counts each have been these crimes. The one exception was this anonymous source who told me he told me about to Roswell crash program. So what interest in people often play like you're you know what they read my book he dared the feeling that there adding to their. Getting classified information because it doesn't think the public campaign. What I'd clarify. You know in situations like this that. What often happens with crossfire program let's let's take a dirty bomb programming. On for example. Some of the sources I was working with had yet we did I heard rumors that we profit dirty bomb truck which is so interesting I mean it was setting a nuclear weapon. Giant mushroom in the desert but the idea too and dirty comic to creepy creepy. And that matter and report it and I couldn't filed plans in the information act request. Couldn't get any information. Then I found a security guard out there were knew about it in our Richard mean. He's telling me about all the different programs that he could speaker and it being declassified. Her and I'm not asking questions attack at a had a lot of dirty Comcast expecting that I can't talk about it's still classified. He kept me oh you mean project safety net. And it was like you know being being being being being banned in my FOIA request tickets today. Check 57 between how would you possibly know but that was the name of the matching hat that insider information. And from Barack got a document from the April report this story but it was declassified. Let it. That makes sense in terms of you know entering crashed about like how the weird world of keeping things secret. Right we're talking with Danny Jacobs and journalist author her books include area 51 operation paper clip the Pentagon's brain. And her latest book phenomenon we're gonna take a break when we come back we'll continue our conversation. It's JV it's Jason beyond reality. OK okay you've heard me talking about scary time but now is the time to make your plans to attend the celebrity guest list is being assembled the movie premieres are being planned the parties are being organized and deployment is guaranteed. Then next Erica time is scheduled for June 2 for the force in Springfield Massachusetts is a great town that I did even better when scary time arrives for more details and keep track of the latest insult this. The website that's silicon dot com that's scary time. Dot com we'll see. Beyond reality radio Jason Thomas JB John. Senator telephone numbers 844. 6877669. Tonight we're talking with any Jacobson she's a journalist and author her website is any Jacobs send dot com. We've been talking about a much for books and I checked. You know women covering an area 51 now we're gonna get into a lot of different when she's got this new book out phenomenon I can't wait to read the secret history of the US government's investigation into. Pressure sensory perception in cycle kinesis. And no before you bring any backing quickly here let's go to our. Phone lines are bring a listener call in this is Matt from Arizona Matt a welcome to be on reality radio great to have you on. A guy in here. Purge Y it pointed to the cause you to do. It. For and he. Your I was curious. Although reports or video isn't that I've seen people heard it of ER markets a good point. The YOGYEDC. Area in wind and I this airport. In which is curious it's. And he's the people that you interviewed premieres books or whatever order. Third what it you net and you keep order the each who's to it is it seemed legit legit they there's pictures of the Mountain View. Yeah great course are great question meant any what do you think do you have any information about these unmarked passenger planes. They're called Karen Kraft and they didn't flying out there areas safety on you know the late fifties early sixties. And I can't under different names out there called Janet that are in the early days a lot of them are owned by a company called. Which was also responsible for the wiring and hiring him on the nuclear weapons. And yet many of expression that I entered the book blue on the that they actually get a lot of helicopter trapped in the in the sixties. OK so what were aware that what with a purpose behind those flights and them being unmarked and and things like. I think that an aircraft situation where people make like this. There's so much more can hit fifteen well that it merits and a real lot of scrutiny and questioning and the jets that airlines. I opinion is not one of them it's just it's like they don't you know care that is the way in which. Individuals with toxic clearances are transported out to area 51. Specifically because. No 100 need to know lead going out there and either go I'm not fighters now. You know. That's by the claims to. Yemen's interest and thanks for that call manic and just a related question. Any there's been reports recently about similar aircraft unmarked passenger looking aircraft circling cities and in Denver was one of them of there was one that was circling Denver for an hour or more. Is that anything is there anything related there. Figure where else. I mean you know anything is unmarked. Kinesis agency C Friday. But also the Air Force One hundred slide it. You know. Accompanied by aircraft that are disguised as a passenger planes. Term too but as far as and they're circling over Haiti and that I don't know I'm I mean so much. There's so many military. Aircraft flyover under the law. And that flyover. Our city regularly. Mott and also black helicopters and my understanding is they are com. Not being Indian elected to do and when the president comes on the wanna take an IR footprints. Wherever that flight acid can go and and later that's shame. Flight path will be flown again and using IR infrared technology. They're looking for your irregularities. That may have cropped up in that particular flight path that would indicate some kind of possible attack. OK I can I can totally understand that. I feel we have we have about a half a minute here before we have to you guys that are top of the hour break before we do that. When we come back we're gonna talk about your book the Pentagon's brainy new introduced an acronym to us was a DARPA. What is DARPA to set the stage for the discussion we're gonna have about the Pentagon's brain. Characteristic expert did get an advanced. Research projects agency. And Erica said before the most powerful most productive. Military agency in the world and PP Comerica. Coming invented everything from the Internet. To GPS technology. And now leading in our actual intelligence. And that Nick Green technology grain shipped in soldiers. Com autonomous weapon and I mean really frightening stuff wasn't what I got to the end of the Pentagon for an I myself would actually cry. OK when we come back we're gonna talk about the Pentagon's brain into our book with any tickets. OK okay you've heard me talking about scary time but now is the time to make your plans to attend the celebrity guest list is being assembled the movie premieres are being planned the parties are being organized and the point is guaranteed. Then next Erica time is scheduled for June 2 for the force in Springfield Massachusetts is a great town that I did even better when scary time arrives to court details and keep track of the latest insult this. The website that's silicon dot com that's scary time. Dot com we'll see yeah. Analysts toes horns and the East Coast and many are stuck in between welcome to beyond reality radio with myself Jason Hawes might. Co host GV John adds it's great to be here tonight we've got a great show we're talking with any Jacobson tonight she's a journalist and an author. She's got books including area 51 operation paper clipped the Pentagon's brain and her newest is called phenomenon will be chatting about all of those. Things and plus we've got some great stuff coming up the next two days to. We do it tomorrow night or are we talking with Edward health Sloan who reviewed discussing his book doctor marries a monkey how the murder of a doctor or secret laboratory in a long ones and cancer causing monkey viruses. Are linked to Lee Harvey Oswald the JFK assassination. And emerging global epidemics so and then Thursday were going to be talking a good friend of mine. Site compare psychologist mental list an author and pretty much all around great guy Lloyd. Our mark yeah he's got a lot of great information has has been involved in all aspects of the paranormal. Has written about it has talked about it hasn't has been a teacher about it and anytime we have one program it's just a fascinating conversation. One of funny thing about Lloyd is he scandal at the black sheep of the Stanley is every time I've gone and I've I've done The Today Show and I've been out there I always run into his brother his father used to work for NBC as well but his brother works for The Today Show. His other brother and is involved in the movie industry in Lloyd is the Irsay college usually it's just as black sheep out there doing his own thing but just in all he's so all around great guy. Yeah he is and he's been doing at a very very long time has a lot of great experience so that's going to be a great conversation. They don't forget to stop by the FaceBook page eight you know we like to directing people there because it gives us an opportunity to communicate outside of the show hours. You have silly head over to FaceBook dot com slash beyond reality radio. When we're constantly updating it with all the new stations were airing aren't wherever it adding a couple of new stations every week to of this ever growing list it's all or cross country right now but it just it's FaceBook dot com slash beyond reality radio. He also had a beyond reality radio dot com if you click the listen lie you can join us during the live show. In our online chat you can illustrate their from the website but also you can download the app straight from the website at the honor relative dot com for iPhone or android. Which allows you to listen live show to chat with us. Listen past episodes in and much much more. Yeah and before before we go to break and then bring in our guest any Jacobson known as one thing that we wish coach Ted about a second and that's. A really cool event that we've got coming up to united going to be at scare punt. Scary time skirt kind of Springfield Massachusetts and what's exact dates on its June 2 third and fourth to set the mass mutual senator in in Springfield. And where and it's it's just a great time c'mon down check it out usually eaten thousands of people show up com. But some great celebrities are very they're doing signings and it's just it's it's a wonderful experience earlier this. Yeah it's going to be great lot of great celebrity guests lottery parties are still is going to be Steve Steve will be joining going to be on some let every film premieres and screenings is just to weaken of a lot of fun and a lot of cool people hanging out not justice liberty portion but. You get to meet a lot of other people that share the same interest as you whether it's paranormal or pouring hormone related or pop culture whatever happens to be. Well I like it just because at what point last time I was there do even the celebrities like myself and and others were and were not disappearing in. Going and just disappearing it's old movie only to see a seder tables like last time bush Adrian marble who was there any now whether we're just all walking around hanging around having a great time and I and I think the people who show up really enjoy that because they're able to stern talk. Yeah I do it's who provides a really pretty bit them pretty much an intimate setting to be laying on top what's cool people so again just notice Garrick con dot com check it out it's at the mass mutual senator. In Springfield Massachusetts coming up by June 2 third and fourths. And we are allowed to talk with any Jacobs and I'm so let's take this break let's come back as I wanna get into her new book can. And so much more elicited Jason do you. Activists show beyond reality radio Jason Hart Stevie Johnson thanks everybody for joining us we really appreciate you coming along with the listening on a great radio station or you listening online you're all welcome of course. We're adding that radio stations to list of affiliates all the time. Well we just added Wisconsin now which is WLS and net lacrosse Wisconsin we just added WM EL Melbourne Florida and WJ Emma Howell. In Travers city Michigan welcomed beyond reality real Fam. Against racing that list grow you can always check out our list of affiliates on the web sites beyond reality radio dot com if you're looking for station in your area and that list growing all the time. Have so it's getting bigger and bigger and it's all due to you you'll altered tune into the show you make it a success and we greatly appreciate it yet and we're talking with to any Jacobson any easy journalist and an author. And in just answered pretty fascinating work. That's received a lot of praise. Her books include area 51. Operation paper clip the Pentagon's brain and her latest book is called phenomenon and we're gonna try to touch on all of those. On any again thanks for joining us on beyond reality radio it's it's fabulous to have you on the program. And we start off by talking about your book the Pentagon's brain know we introduce the concept of DARPA. And again you have to you have to give media what the acronym stands for. On and tell us the significance of significance of that group again. And it can record stands for the different. Advanced research protection. Agency. And it and it made three billion dollar a year budgeted. National security. Inside the Defense Department agency that deals with and create the most corner technological military in the world opinion how interesting that. We're talking about it as you know what you can. Really didn't it. Get a major what dark decree. But the thing is I'm sure that all of their names down out there as much as as a lot of the other names for for probably security purposes or days they have their name but teachers try to do the room thing in and try to stay out of a stay off their radar correct. Cantwell if you if you Whitaker and dark and you read some of their news stories you get things like you know incredible chomping Obama shares about the military's. Ticket. We're getting toward disaster really. Okay you'll they talk about the great American project that they work on. You know curing alzheimer's for example teaming up with a lighthouse on the brain. And the compliment as I report in the book. Is that the mission statement of DARPA. Used to create and they can equal. That. Weapons systems. Of the future. So that it carpet and it has me. To do with the VA has nothing to do without him you know nothing to do with disaster. That is. Pure propaganda and term made to keep people's eyes are accountable to our country carry. Paris it's more or is it really doesn't have any. Attachment and furthering mankind more. Making it possible to obliterate and kind. Yes and I mean I paid at all in neutral journalist Bernard an ark and into the dark matter real purpose and function it hasn't. Done extraordinary well over the decade which it has I mean the Internet used to be called the and it was mill that before it was you know dot. So what what the Pentagon Keyon the world in terms of civilian technology each is astonishing. But one not always remember that the league and that that technology created its port of fast web content to share. We go through the list of literally some of the list of things that DARPA has worked on over the years. How many of those things might now other than the Internet which dirty talked about might show opened in our consumer world that if Ben. A byproduct of that type of aggressive research and development. Well you know it's a great question and I think one of the reasons why the book not too much attention comes to a you know ice skating community if you because. Percent marine and I do in the first journalists and that I'm aware of her neck was able to piece together that the technology. What we would call center technology. You know we knew everything from your garage clicker. Do if you get into that relatively new car on the way in which the shield wipers we'll just kind of mysteriously go on. Apple first popped it rains you know and attacking you okay. Should be or if you walk into a room in constructing your light click or any anything that cancer. That's I was able to report in the book is technology thicker directly. Back. 21960s. And Vietnam War when a group of scientists and my interviewed for the book in vacation time. And anyone is you know conspiracy lover as probably heard of the nation's scientists because. They have such a reputation of being kind of like a secret Defense Department in monopoly. But in my interview I commentary very you know very stirred serious. I need old school is here and engineers who work on Defense Department programs but they work they created. This early early counter technology. Could quickly to try and disrupt Viet Cong fighters. The coaching tree. And at every court in the pocono both attacking this has transformed. Not only into. Current technology into what's called off technology to the Pentagon can't yet no room in screech. Air force base Nevada and fight a war in Afghanistan. All of that is related content and technology. And comes from vacation time yet armed aircraft are. Now under the Jason scientists. That was there was oil is loosely thirty to sixty members in and that whole. Whole thing cracked. Tray and they you know I interviewed the founder Marvin equal Kirk who worked on the very first program. And when I was interviewing in two years ago even in the early nineties. And he still consulting darkest darkest Gillick today. And they yes they are very small unit. An individual and actually. Full time professors. And part time. Defense time so they kind of council that they they solve the heart problems and option in the Summers. At a at a secret stability but it is it dark secret that the classified facility talent and he can hide. General. Colder skip. Secret compartment did information facility. Has been in one and you know there while ago in Q can you are already been kind of when you're in a different facilities and contractors are haters extraordinary security get in but it Kia. You you know you go you see like in the distance this. Building that looks kind of liking us warehouse with no windows. And it's surrounded by concertina. And you have to go to multiple layers of security Internet and once you and you realized. This means to really care I mean in a tentative giants are taking each with no possibility. Chop. Yes that yes or no cellphones or anything. So as you run out. It's as you were doing research for this book in conducting the interviews what type of level of personnel were you talking to. Well I haven't said it was a very mildly ill go straight for the top. I mean what do what I was taught and it's in the interest being. You know at this point in other words. You are I try to Clinton. Smartest man in the room I can attack on the president's science and I try to and and do and tracked down the milk Loria who you know. Kinsella he early consistent because. A lot of times I come up again. Things organic apple owners reporting current account strange one at a highly classified new weapons and the darkest working out our leisure weapons. Okay. And because. Leaders travel at speed of light you know their. These might be swept systems may be used either. In Kenya and not kind at all highly respected what they're gonna be used for wanted to know the technology behind it go to the Pentagon. You know taking interviews. And I get a little bit and talking now to certain midlevel dissent in there and I get a little better. Oh he will really understand that you know which dynamic being now from reporting. Is often an excuse for. You know I can't really explain it. I don't understand at least that's my impression. To a situation like I tracked down the new panel Gloria. Charles town to independently. He was 98 at the time still taking reporters' questions and often. Berkeley. Professor emeritus. And you know being at a grand old chat about later captains and majors and there aren't behind it like what Einstein said. You'd if you are if you read seen or what you're talking about should be able to explain the most complicated physics in the world to elect child. And that's what I'm like Charlestown. And that's what I try to hunt down smartest guys in the room because. You know I think kind should be made easy for people to understand. Well and I think it's it's wild that you brought up goalie is just as when I spent time Aaron Patterson. That was one of the things REN news or locations I spent time and and just getting in there and seeing the things they're working on. And I was actually allowed to fire off portable lasers which was amazing and estimate but the fact of the matter is and we burned through a three inch piece of Plexiglas. In an attempt of a second to burn to big hole and they were and and they were there enemies it was amazing and perfect perfect circle with him in an attempt at a second but. That whole the whole thing was their idea is there they wanna make it smaller and smaller and eventually have these systems where the amount on planes and helicopters and it they are not exactly but you'd be able to. Keep on making a smaller and smaller through different lenses to the point where it can be and he can be the size of a needle and the head of the needle and nobody would see it and just in one of the guys brought up the point. I think of that if we have this on a helicopter or plane. We can isolate somebody that that person with that and nobody could tell. How that person dropped and that entity you think about you like that that's amazing I am I mean you had a month with a laser that size of the head of a needle. And you kill somebody instantly. And now you're getting upon me. The the areas where I'm talking about or told to hear that at the end. Reporting. And and on rain and I actually you know built. Scared because the weapons technology is the accurate read is becoming becoming show it and but still small. And culturally. And when you're talking about those three elements mixed together. You really get into an arena where you can lose and and transparency. And I think that I mean you know the public telling work going on because. The Pentagon is working from the idea of command control and communicate and they can do that in it completely. You know. Internal environment and not have to share that information and around the base being classified. And you're talking about really losing. The public and their ability in Gartner. Which arguing Danny Jacobs and journalist author author of the books area 51 operation paper clip the Pentagon's brain and phenomenon. And we're gonna go to break you but we come back organist are talking about tell her most recent book which is the book called phenomenon the secret history. Of the US government's investigations into extra sensory perception and cycle kinesis. And if you go to beyond reality radio dot com you can click on I guess temple to give pass gas as well as it has any information links to their books. And so much more so I had over beyond really reviewed dot com or take a quick break we come back more. By the end. Just was genius when they name themselves Barenaked Ladies and mean he had the you know you start now you need a lot of people's commune gigs they appearing to ninth or naked ladies and. Started off as a comedy and is that analysts here have started on him dim parodies and stuff like patent they just hit it big so. That's why they also broke up a lot of them didn't wanna be date now the wanna be funny you know English wanna do there and do their thing. And welcome back to be on reality radio Jason Hawes Jimmie Johnson so good to have everybody witness or telephone numbers 844. 6877669. We're gonna bring any Jacobson right back in here because we've got. Few minutes left in a lot still to talk about in any ice and we're gonna talk about your new book phenomenon before we do that I just wanna touch briefly on. Operation paper clip because that whole story fascinates me. And you know it's it's what will you tell tell the folks what the stories about. Luckily I got the idea right typical political end is married to ski on in reporting on them. German scientists. You know release to try to learn a reformer on. And specifically. I learned about it and not seen named Hickory tightening admire. And during the wall there he was the most important. An engineer. Or it will lift off which is not seen air force and he was still close to her glory. Quran and looked lost on sort of like Hitler's number three. Or ankle company admire mindful. And he was given the highest award. That the not to give a scientist during the war. I found out that he seemed to the United States under this program called opt patient paper clip. And he worked for the US air force at nick Patterson air force me. Com when he retired in Greek name or retired from the US Department of Defense. In 1972. It would get index UN distinguished. Civilian service to war. And I thought to myself my god how do you go from being one of the most important. Scientific engineer in the right. Q having that same. Important. For the Defense Department and that is how I got an idea operation. And recover 21. Of those very similar scientists are. Hard core not content network for a. Well there were 6116100. German scientists are brought over operation paper clip and these were. Were neo Nazis he said it right and naming a lot of these people. The thing they did the things they did will on an excusable. Who's just grotesque but fact of the matter is they were brought over. To advance our technology on these things and sort of given a free ride to. On all the atrocities that they they've done in the past. They were responsible ultimately for our rocket program for our biological weapons program which is huge in the fifties. Core chemical weapons program tree fusion. Mean wanted to kind of elaborate about that rank. In operate paper clip was evil terrible moxie by the name of doctor Otto amber. And the told me in the amber and standards for DNA in parent calf. Who. Oh. He developed. Transfer for Hitler on Hewlett because he was convicted. Of mass murder slavery. And genocide. On at current work. And was sent to land start Christian. But our. UN high commissioner John McCall rich pardon Ambrose. Tony later became. And passionate city that government specifically for the comic energy. As you were talking to people about operation paper clip and putting this book together. What was the general sense among those who you spoke with the regarding the trade offs verses bringing. Clear war criminals to justice vs getting that technology and that those scientific minds to help. The United States defense and rocket program. I mean it is very important question ages ranged and it's the real conundrum of paper clip. Being that neutral journalist and I try to write down the middle and presentable cut that arc. And armed people would tell me you know this is Juan Juan idea of looking match. No matter how terrible they work we needed them to be back in Russia. To be practicing. A result speaking Russian and any other side of the argument no matter how bad it was. Had no business hiring now and are but let me make operation paper that showed dramatic. You have to decide for yourself. You know or even beyond my giving them awards and all these other things after they're here com. I it's just like the icing on the cake for four at all. Certainly and I mean acting couple books I've written that is one left in the strongest on neutral position. You know the general actions goes. Into Spanish I don't. Current let's move on in the time we have left to talk about your newest book it's called phenomenon the secret history of the US government's investigations into. Extra sensory perception in cycle kinesis these are topics we talk about on the program are frequently but what is the US government doing when these things. Well you know phenomenon is a book about scientists and psychics with top secret clearances. And you know many people have heard that remote viewing program set indeed in the eighties and nineties. I'm what ideal in this content report being brought storage going all the way past. To add that not because that is how the US government first became missed it. On with what we've gathered what we acquired at the end of or cue from the not to work in this area. But I take you all the way to the president. And now collecting Greek immersed. Astonishing to mean original reporting in the book revealing. That the Defense Department is still gloomy working on. ESP programs only days. The hidden them under a very advanced technology banner their call things like and anomalous condemnation. Com the opposite enable leisure trip first adamant the eighties but these are you know this week ES scheme rolled up under different. And I think what really in in you know in the end maybe to create new car out which set. Could you guys steal little list in in your work is set. Here. Did. Not is now phenomenon ESP striker Kenny just popped out to paranormal. If you. Is this fact or is exe and will. The government with all its muscle and power and prestige be able to solve procedural mystery where is its advanced technology. But never existed before where we are today. Well and they worked on project trade down to stargate project back in seventy which I'm sure you re you re surged on doing some of this the sort for the book correct. Yes and I interviewed at mostly getting interviewed CIA physiology it looked after taking. Com you know biological makeup trying determination company you know kind of your per normal not paranormal. Back intricate offense department eating and looking at neuro biology. Looking at you are using computer technology mantle biotechnology. To you're trying to determine if this prepared. Is in fact these geological. And if there's a way to enable it and and every individual or individuals that is that they mainly are working with correct. Well you're absolutely right and it is not in people are you ready for this direct quote from the Pentagon it's. Well are we able to amplify. And then in half. And accelerate. And what I mean in DOD. Terminology. Is weapon I'm. OK and I know that there were some reports are kind of cap are under wraps of that they had identified certain. Cern genes in on certain DNA is that. The ability seem more profound in a lot of their research and there and they're testing. So I would assume that now home this day and age there that's what they're mainly looking forest they're checking DNA to see if any of these. Discerned that flags are showing up so then they can they can test those people they can see how far they can push those individuals. You're absolutely right I mean they're looking at what they call Jeanne Dielman. Cup super. And what I think is super interesting about black. And you know readers have to go get phenomenon and decide for themselves what they think about it but it could be jolt to order. Touchy subject where demand blunt blunt do establish wedeman in other economic involved. And and look at different department begin to do is in certain. Psycho pharmacology. Into the mix well that's just fancy word for truck. It can't it power between hand to the crux. But so the government has found has figured out how and what I guess what. Key in the DNA. Shows that somebody has has the potential to have the stability or to be able to to do these things. And if they have but if they've been able to figure out that key that geno or whatever. Then the I guess just right testing anybody everybody's blood they would know who has a higher ability to be able to perform these tasks. Well the way that it working in sort of can reverse engineer and then they were. One of the more modern programs and read about the bookish took place in that the birth of the programs could Rackley a group of children walking on the street mobile. One of them has had a premonition. Or enhanced integration in the careers and I media. And patient robot out. I ate dinner is tonight he's there. Now suddenly that's soldiers sukur interest pentagon and they take him back to a lap and they examined that individuals can now. So another that the reverse engineering not looking at everybody is that Egypt's Ireland so labor intensive but rather. Pinpointing hone in on the individuals who are gift it. And then taking genomics of and then trying to figure out what that common denominator. And how to enhance calorie. But it becomes terrifying because from there you become nothing but a lab rat. Just. Because you you had to call you had an actual sense at a certain time and you become you become elaborate the US government. There is that potential amount of frightening part and I think you know. Can Levy was last cookies out of the evening is that where the Pentagon brain might last and phenomenon. My new. Sort of merge into training range because in Pentagon's green. You need a hard time. Didn't being explored and the advances being made. And in phenomenon you're able to look at my god now they're moving into an area of conscience. Com and will that idea of consciousness be recognized and then your last night. You get into sort of you know the matrix and a place where there are no limits. Q what might be corrupt economic. Or specially womb is just an agent you're probably you're pretty much in a situation where the government can can do things and get away with a lot of those things without anybody ever knowing. And it just becomes a terrifying situation all around. Which is the transparency issues we were talking about her hair like you know like president Eisenhower said to be alert and knowledge people disagree it will allow. Democracy and security. You know fluctuating markets to work hand in hand so that's classic book and write and and take that and knowledgeable person. On you can't do this by having Shula to keep reading keep listening keep asking questions and I think transparency for our. And you have got to ask you this question when you gonna tackle the JFK assassination because you've seen the the other answers and we need some about your day assassination. But you know. Most will be the deal as it. Whatever it is an expert at about the diet that's relevant descends into. We have links to your books on the beyond reality radio website and our guest pays to where else can people find information about your books in your work. In my book has sold bookstores everywhere and am. And amnesia can dot com content can collect to contact me back and really welcomed. Terrific loop you've been a fantastic test the topics have been fascinating we appreciate you being on the show thanks so much for coming on we look forward to talk to you again. Thanks so much for having me can't keep up. But the great work. All right thank you any Jacobson journalist author website is any Jacobson that's that ends and ST and dot com AN NIE Jacobs sent dot com. I serenity quick break and come back more. The conversation click on dissent within each song reminds me uniqueness. Or are drinking the well apple. This is exactly what happens when her bedroom just smacked down there are stupid Amal Terrell blocks whatever the button and blowers say. Just saying you know anytime we have a conversation like we just did to their guest tonight any Jacobson and and meet more about these things going on. In the government's. Kinda behind their backs under the radar or just completely top secret they don't care if with we want and or not directly tell us. It always you know it's that this treats a little bit of fear in me and I and you get concerned because there are so many things that we do know. But that's only as as any put its only tip of the iceberg. Yeah we don't know. Well and if people surely taken or how I mean that the government has a lot of things behind her back and they do know I'm minor wounds we just pass a budget thing wasn't like one point seven trillion to fund the government till September yeah. I lost it that's insane he can. But and where at where's all that money go all the spa at. I don't say it does become terrifying it really does and you know that any. All of these folks JV. Art in television development right now I'd seen some movement that that's pretty remarkable. Well you're talking about her books of all ala from AMC either wanted to have him Walking Dead and a vikings evils and a plan B which is Brad Pitt's company rat pack a Warner Bros. JJ abrams' bad or about Spielberg. Mean there'll there'll. All aren't done yet and don't ever books and development it's amazing -- intelligence Irma the and and just you know glad to have her on the program before she did he is so big that you do one tomorrow and the next thing I did tonight Laurie weir and honesty should I zone in early still wanted to come on. And what's so again a big shot out to any for come on Amy Jacobson you can check around go to beyond really reviewed dot com. Just click on the guest have all the information is there from. If you haven't Yemeni Sheila FaceBook page to FaceBook dot com slash BLE radio. But we have some great shows coming up tomorrow night we're going to be talking with Edward pulse. We're discussing his book doctor of Mary's monkey. All the murder of a doctor secret laboratory in a wall ones cancer causing monkey viruses. Are all linked to leave Lee Harvey Oswald in JFK assassination. I don't know how this could be. I don't know what the thread is between all of that stuff but I'm running or just pulling them together but I think that's of them and I don't know and I'm I'm anxious to find out because seems like a whole bunch of different things all coming together and then you get the the linchpin of via JFK assassination which everybody wants to you learn about or get it resolved and and so the professor and sort of me. Yen Thursday we've got Paris psychologist mental list author in two pretty much all around great guy Floyd our mock. On the is a pioneer in the paranormal field and he's just a wonderful person talks to order saying earlier I think it's funny because every time I've gone to do that state show a run until Lloyd's brother who works it works and the production department there. And his Lloyd's brother and does that his father is who was works for NBC his older brother works in the movie shield men you have Floyd the pair psychologist. You know and I think it's true meant for him say before that. He actually been on TV more than the rest of combines to somehow he wins out in the end I think no that's this is assured this is chat themselves. But day estimation you tune in every Friday is a best of show. But again if you go to beyond really radio dot com you can click the the apps are there. Give the android app yet format that we can listen to the show lie he can challenge us if you'd like to elicit past episodes that are. There on the errors while and there are and it's all free so that's how we go oh year old. It was that's how we roll going we much it has involved as we can possibly get to because you know we like having input. Like having you know having everybody part of the show. And if you download this on iTunes please just do us a favor and rate it we just want you to ratings are so because it helps more more people find it and just it's an altered more so we appreciate the sport ever when shown that in the reason the show is is the successes because of view that oral tuning in south. Until tomorrow night everybody stay say if you listen Jason NG VBRL literati. It's. Season. Tunes. Yeah yeah he's been HQ was lying and saying hello and it's beyond me only refueling burn and if you don't. Information you want us to follow along or you liked being Gaston beyond reality really email to swing any rule. Let's swinging any Edie Edie Klein and and beyond reality radio dot com thanks for listening.