WBEN NewsRadio 930>Audio & Video on Demand>>Ripperologist Michael Hawley talks about theories in the 130-year old Jack the Ripper case

Ripperologist Michael Hawley talks about theories in the 130-year old Jack the Ripper case

Jun 22, 2018|

Jason Hawes & JV Johnson talk with Ripperologist Michael Hawley about his research and theories regarding the Jack the Ripper murders. Michael discusses one suspect in particular and offers the evidence to support his claims. 6/21/2018 - Beyond Reality Radio with Jason Hawes & JV Johnson

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

I cannot be owned by scientific method. You're six. Send him tall and. Creature that's been seen my many little life you know. And de Ferran good morning mining boom Herron online inning and news features and yeah me. He lying then yeah real mania apple is lying game. It also shape shifting mentioned you. My experience it's an experience. Our. Owens now West Coast are there still spinning your stuck somewhere in between what could be on really revealing myself to arsenal's there was some cheat each counts are I don't know if this is real world this is a dream memorex. I know what it is and I know the last night you word here you're damn right I heard either with your cast their country first found that it just wasn't here. Via I was kind of way I mean being by myself was one they were being all alone is Laker in the another thing those those a bit of a shock. I yeah that and that really sinks on the guest leaves you hanging and media. In today it's one of those things where you can do them a favor put them on there and on hundred stations cross country right. Yeah for the interest I don't know well in all fairness it's definitely something that's it may be something happened in all fairness to sir wise and we don't know why we couldn't get a lesson they were still waiting for a response to that and hopefully it's nothing serious wolf we shouldn't get injured or sick or something you know. But you know those little awkward but we got through it he good congratulations a job thank always a great job thank you but I don't think of a better co host to handle that especially when. I pulled a no show no I did Paul know now I knew you you know I wasn't going to be there yeah I knew in advance thankfully but it I did not know these guess would be but you know today is the what does this summer solstice or. I don't you tell me you got it. Dumb error and dumb calendar and I. Yeah dialogue myself lyrics are also most drop the you have to live near deleted me I would bet the push the delete button suit that's what happens when there aren't. You're in New York City for today and yeah see you. Just knowing that some language probably it's stealing the Allen for taxis and I think there is an ideal for taxi use those words you can be suppresses it and Edwards ahead DSL now. Protect these well I didn't quite some guy for taxi. Today is is this summer solstice and it's important obviously because it's the longest day of the year in the Northern Hemisphere but in addition to that. It's a did it today that traditionally thousands of people flocked to Stonehenge. To celebrate trying to solstice and they've. Thought the series are that four. A few millennium now. People have done that they've used Stonehenge as a place to celebrate the summer solstice. That's awesome and they expect about 25000. People. To be there and it's been a lot of people look at a much or are yet and I think it's thirty is indeed it they're supposed to be there at sunrise which would have been 4:52. AM. In the UK there five hours five hours ahead so it would be just now it's a little bit before now accident like ten minutes ago or so or twenty minutes ago. And so there probably all their tradition there all right 42 F five sodas and a forty or they got a 3031. Minutes 32 minutes left all 540 tunes and no 4452. Us all 452. Mavis I Massa posted this at 542 but I meant for 52 regardless you on the matter what you heard about it yes so it's believed that for this'll sisters have been celebrated as Stonehenge for thousands of years so of course Stonehenge has long been associated with pagan religion and drew woods and folks from both of those quote on quote religions. Are expected to be in at Stonehenge in full force that oil and also and didn't weren't there are some people who believe that during that. Portals opened up. Yeah there's a there's tension there's so there's talk about that I don't know if that's for throwing you know malicious half of them disappear we know that there's some truth that. Speaking of disappearing and speaking of about Jesus I mean I've been paralyzed I'm not clear yet. As but speaking of disappearing and speaking of England this the ejector predicated Jack the Ripper case is still open. Not that anybody disappeared but women were brutally murdered in dissected and and mutilated. During those slings in England in the late nineteenth century and we're gonna talk about that night. There are we talking with Michael holy about this Jack the Ripper suspect doctor Francis tumble T. So now and has been so many series about who who who was stir all right I know we talked with Jeff much of our good friend. How he believes that his great great grandfather. Was. Who is HH Holmes was Jack the Ripper and there's been other series so author as well and I would just actually did a whole thing with. I'm on his series and and knows canceled but he did all things on a series talking about. How he believed it and there are a couple of supposed to Dayton does needed just to dedicated to. Yeah it was it's pretty fascinating theory and I'm I'm a little disappointed. That they didn't bring the research and the investigation conclusion because I remember correctly on that series I'm most it is History Channel was yeah DS church History Channel. They were about to excavate. The area where HH Holmes home was. In news Chicago. Which was now part of the post office at and and grounds of a post office they're going to excavated. And this canoe and left it hanging at the end of that first season of shows and it was almost five shows. He chose Jews in at least gimme some closure and of course is not a people who don't emotionally Jeff or whatever but it's the TV networks. And he's just you want some closure yet so I'm not sure if they ever did the excavation in just decided not to put it into this series and Nationalists I don't know I don't know what I must go back Donyell to have Jeff back and talk about a he's he's just a great guest and a his good friend and always always. This great talk with lemon in here is is theories and thoughts. But Michael hall leased new book is called Jack the Ripper suspect doctor Francis tumble team we're to talk about why. Michael believes that this particular doctor an American doctor visiting in London at that time he was actually arrested. But not capped because they didn't have enough evidence against against him but apparently law enforcement and England believe this was the guy. And double will be let Michael tell us what evidence they had against him how he was able to. Not only beat the charges but actually. Leave England and come back to United States free from any extradition. And what happened when the when he got back here DD find more trouble law mean did he do anything that might indicate he had those tendencies it's going to be. It's gonna be licensed our enemy shoe owners if Jack the Ripper did come noticed he was an American. And he he did what he did over there I mean those are usually things that. That are growing inside that person and you think that he come back here and similar things would start to happen now own over in the US right. Group those similar crimes would occur in places that he wasn't. Maybe it maybe that in Michael Bull tell us about that so is going to be great conversation tomorrow night. Rick Wagner who's the ghosts doctor and he's a spiritual healer will be with us talking about how he uses. Energies to connect with Penske surround him to help people ordered to stand and any unexplained pain depression or thoughts of addiction endorse suicide. And help them discover their own authentic voice once again. If you haven't Amaechi had over to FaceBook dot com slash B Yonder earlier deal like the FaceBook page forest. Then had to be unreality radio dot com you can find all decisions we Aaron across the country lewis' console teaming up it is a check in Austin. A you can also download the free iPhone and Mandarin up Shalala shall listen live long ago. And I catch past shows as well. Or just listen arsenal of so you can click the listen lighted button in the upper hand corner of the website or you can click the pop open. Which opens up a chat room you can hang on a great being with a great community people. And dolce and the story there on your computer at home. Yeah we encourage you to do that all of the above and to support the showing and we can we love it when you do that also remember the phone numbers 8446877669. We'll take your calls later in the show if you wanna join a discussion of much. The ripper especially if you have your own series and who objector or for really was left to parents are. Are we're gonna take a quick break a lot more come Nielsen a decent GP guiana. Or song to play generated art project. At its a good point under the Disney and an intentional about how that I'd I somewhere I think there might have I am so. Hopefully subliminally there was or it. It's delegates aren't we welcome back to the show it's beyond reality radio Jason and Jay-Z two they were to be talking about Jack the Ripper and we're going to be talking with ripper only just Michael. Holy by the way you can visit his website it's Michael L holy. Dot com his most recent book is called Jack the Ripper suspect doctor Francis tumble T and Michael welcome be unreal to read agree Jeff Young tonight. Great thank Alex come on Michael so let's talk thank you yeah lesser figure a couple things here for small what exactly is a ripper allergist. Okay well that is actually. And the term that's been used lately I've added basically. Group. People interest within the the white chapel murders ministry that the project rip and murder case I would circular. In the autumn of the 1888. What do we have to still unsolved. In the port east and district of London. That it occurred and so the sit for decades. There have been researchers that and and they have been writing and yeah investigating that's unsolved mystery. And so it just. Then continuing and so we and so it's that it's amazing how much information as involved. Dealing with the victims dealing with the that the suspects and the case itself the geographical location. So you get. In that group of enthusiasts you get researchers and writers like myself you've got. Editors you get. People that work. Run journals. And then you've got people that facility conferences. And also podcast specific dedicated pack cancer experts. For example over the cats. Which is run by Jonathan nineties and in case books then we've got online to forums on line GHR forum which is our grounds. This case put that or which is Stephen Haller writer all of those who have been opera running for years. In his and that includes Canada place where researchers can build up reliable knowledge. And then now in that. The social media which FaceBook pages. And then there's the book reviews. From experts such as golf bag and it's really. It's kind of our version I'll hear review all of the above. So that was my basic background before in the sciences where actual review. Its. It really even though. There's bumps and bruises on the way. Love hate relationship with everybody but it's amazing how much information discovered. Especially when all the original files and that's. Know what brought you into all this this whole story project or what titan. We'll tell you to sit and. Well oil and capitalizes. In my background again. What missions states years ago. Before he died during the navy. But I was generally due to the major and then that when the navy. Naval aviator and retired as a commander. Then I got my masters in my matches he says was non stop so strategically so I was trained him. In discovery and I'd look discovery learning things that stuff other signs that ever discovered. And then researcher. So then about in 2009. I watched that show that you would call them mr. quest episodes. And there was one that does that Jack the Ripper. And it was Stuart Evans. Which has you know been doing research for fifty years but. This was twenty years ago. He acquired this letter it's private letter from. This book dealer. That private letter came from the secret special branch. Of Scotland Yard. The special branch division talent to CIA version. I'm the chief inspector at the time of the murders. Are what apple was this. Same journalists. Church systems to ask him lean years later Kuwaiti side Jack direct awards and then so he suggested one particular person. And here's this man who was in the little. Wasn't directly about what the ripper case but he was always in the meetings. He basically says. He mentioned this American quack doctor Francis told police say the most of suspects he's a very likely work. In that shack Stuart Evans because for eighty years no one's ever heard of this guy's name. And here is the street inspector who is there saying he was a very likely suspect and so that Stewart parents students and researched the next couple years. Discovered much more laps of the information election United States with the newspapers and that's one of the reasons why people and yet. Other names so much but. And then what capitalizes. That what because that episode. Showed that he was buried in Rochester New York was little and our apple went from. So while I went there and so I decided. I get interest it because it's a mystery and then am I found out that. Lot of the experts by 2009. Kind of rejected the idea of fringe just probably really being serious suspect. So that actor I decided I'd like to jump. In and tried to utilize. My particular skills that resurgent physical sides and see how it could apply. And I just kept on finding more and more information and relays that more sound more Stuart Evans was right all along. And then then that which we are continuing to find new information and so this last in the years here have been chemically. Huge amount of discovery. So much so that. You know I had been there has to do that electron Liverpool. Last year also ball mark an arm come as those that wrote about that. That I was flown to Dublin Ireland to do an interview which is gonna in the Travel Channel artists and then. There's another film coming out so all the stuff is just building up so it's a lot of new information which is an exciting part. So my plan does this start what's France established since he's you know they're great match to me. And what's so exotic you know I was gonna go to the next suspects because she suspects. And that. People favor in and so a lot but. I just keep dance kept on assignment to more and more material. It wasn't just me yet you know particularly Roger armor and Brian Young officer giving you know getting involved in the west but. We just keep on keep on finding more more information so it's very exciting. You covered a lot of ground their so we're gonna take a break and we come back we're gonna try to pick this apart a little bit plus find a little bit more about you and why you continue to have a fascination and not just view. But why the world seems to have a fascination with this case that does happen over a 130 years ago. And remember if you have a question or Syria or your own thoughts or questions about Jack the Ripper. Mission to take on the number it's 844687766. Mining until freed 844687. 7669. Will be opening that up after first hour so mean she gives a cult Lewis now are you listen to Jason in GD and be on an island really will be back. The report tonight with a rip wrong which is Michael's whole leak check out his website a lot of great information they're Michael L holy that's HEW. LEY dot com. Ice many books to his credit several about Jack the Ripper including Jack the Ripper suspect doctor Francis tumble T which is what we're talking about tonight. He also is the recourse haunts and the ripper held Roth bunch more on his website as well. And Michael I wanna come back this up in you know America. Has had a fascination with this story the world was had a fascination with the story I have to assume those in the UK still have a fascination maybe even a little bit of a fear. About the story. There have been a lot of serial killers in the course of who is the history of the world particularly in the United States we know many many those at cases remain unsolved. Now we just have one so very very recently there have been open for very long time. What is it about the Jack the Ripper story and those unsolved then unsolved case in those murders that make this story so fascinating. Well I think the first thing is the name Jack the Ripper. And then now when but great whenever that went that's an 1888. In the 1870 years when transatlantic cable news cable communication was to was kicking him. And so this was the very first time as the ripper the victims were being murdered. Today there was we had of the New York newspapers said the London correspondent such as in Europe world woman caught a correspondent he Tracy creeps and win when there was a that they have repertory. It was sent dot immediately across the world and people and in Idaho woods CDs. The it would be talking about the the white chapel district and the the people there. Experiencing this mark this killer on the loose in them so that's ground and it has not been able to find. And so it kind of captured the attention especially. Opt in rated early September 20 sit there as a latter eight dear mark slaughter which we now we. Most people think that. Is probably at stake. But it title as Jack the Ripper and that was the first time it's like chapels seen happen name to. That Dan you know check the geeks being stopped and they use a term projects generically and so they didn't really haven't ain't so they don't know who it is. But he objector president that name can kick skin and so. And since then it's just been kind of part of the culture you know it's it's just like you said in an it keeps going because of the mystery. And then that so I would say quite a bit of that especially the name. Well but also stay where a 130 years cents sense then these murders happen. And is a real red hot is it really possible to still find new information. And this this lead after. It is unbelievable. What. Just indicates Francis comedy. That. In a scout leader basically he. Went for it to somebody. He was arrested on suspicion. And when nobody saw the murders and so. They didn't have any sang that anyone. Well what they did have a different system believe is a misdemeanor charge of gross indecency. And so. They aides current number of reasons. They wanted to keep them blocked streets and so they once they charge more bad it was. He had. He's sneaking bailed heat because as a misdemeanor charge of post buildings that he was basically millionaire by them. I'm but he had sneaked out of the country in a murder or stop. And then then when he got the United States because it was a misdemeanor charge that was not that I also they could not bring him back. But and and then. Within about six months to a year another woman was murdered Scotland Yard was contingent that was ejector ripper victim. So since probably was in new York at the time. He was not a radar but we should know that that was likely matter referred dictum so. And so while it just kind of continue that way. We have especially now. When this for specialists like full of art's sake one since 2009. We've found out that here's Francis comedy. Evidence that he didn't eat at any collections UConn respects it's. Project repertory. A year or senate to victims. And he took a kidney and heart so here's here's princess probably has this a usual thing happening during the civil war. And then now and then what we found out also recently that he did indeed have this amazing hatred of women. At that time. That and then and he can even believe that certain types of women with a Curt Schilling yeah. And then but we had also the case swear out. Com in the year of the murders. When we've found out that he told news Connell reportedly was content go to sudden death could have kidney and heart disease. And here it is. Don't believe he has had computers collection in the attic. You know the student heart disease. Nose with a three organs taken from that refer victims. Then we have the any Chapman one of the victims. She was the only woman had an inanimate objects taken. Project corporate truck was keep arena wedding ring. Many Chapman. And then what happens in this case we have problems. Francis stumbled he always kept. Jewelry diamonds and Julian one architecture you have or wet. And he really get themselves in trouble because he he had. In late two young men and so he would get and get caught. And and now being jail or crowd in front of the police and know how. When he in 1903 when he passed. In his personal collection was all that you re into cheaper drinks. Imitation rings. And so. If in this case with probably if you look at all fiber per victims. People don't know why objector reported taken those links. Because it was the only man in haven't to take him. But it was Francis company there was a reason because that that the only thing on these women is that. Symbolized heterosexual bunting and Tom will be hated. Heterosexual bond in because. He. He. Was basically a homosexual. Take X with the exception of that we just discovered that in term effort right so. How that connection in the another twist. But don't we just keep on finding more and more information than just this last year without our scout yard had no idea. But here's France's stumbled he told this young man and New Orleans when he beat up whereas there's been years before the ripper murders. He showed in the collapse of surgical knives which need now I believe that jets were produced. Any told. This young man that caught that ball all. Street walkers should be different bowels. This occurred before their rep. Numbers all gotten hurt had no idea of this yet you usually just keep on finding this material. You said a lot again Tom can we get a better sense of who. Doctor Francis tumble he was. You know you we can do when we started our discussion tonight he was arrested. And accused or at least suspected of the Jack the Ripper killings. And was charged with a misdemeanor was they believe England and not be extradited so we really never. It was printed could be pursued as aggressively as maybe law enforcement wanted to pursue him in England I cannot escape that people who was this guy before all that. Four that he it was basically a quack doctor. He was born in Ireland. And he was raised in Ireland during the the worst of times and the kingdom salmon. And when he was seventeen he came over and he so who's been on members and already moved over years earlier but. And he moved to Rochester and there was two different types of alternative doctors are one was a French cure doctor. RJ Reynolds and lenders that Indian or our director. Which is arm. Name alliance but Rudolph lions and what capitalizes. He would work for damage and even learned the trade basically so might not apply. 1856. He was now full fledged in meaner darker eat confessed to the end he would do that. He started. In London Ontario. And by the time we got in three years he was certain that Toronto team made up which of street a million dollars. Three million dollars in today's value. At that time he was so successful at this and he would take it was all about exploitation. And them but it is at the same time have done great around the civil war. He you know he wanted to eat he kind of went to Canada and now he. And the civil war he came to be the capital. Basically to make money but also we try to do you try to become a these. General surgeon general McClellan was in charge at the time he complete tried deep can it get into the surgical staff and so. He had no medical diploma because you never went to med school so when he tried to do as he tried to Latin. Give illustrated lectures and when you do that you had at an anatomical museum that. Ukraine do make yourself this is where he had it is an attack his first collection at that time. And so what he was trying to do was he trying to bypass for the medical diploma. Bypass that school by if the US army. Hired him as a surgeon he's basically out surgeon and so in his he had autobiographies that he. I each and every decade you write a new autobiography. And then there easy but claimed to be the year disciple maverick which is an English surgeon. But he. He would lose his primary. I'm medical expertise word is that botanical medicines. And so but he claimed to cure ball. The problem is busy I didn't 1880 realize that you had deeds. Diseases that he could not cure themselves. So before 1880 is a light was money making and so he would. He would go into a seedy scandal like Liberace tighten in this circus style and chased to be over the top where. You know expensive gaudy clothing and to bring in these people on. Claiming and including that he could cure all now it was basically. Herbal medicines that they just feel bad back then telepathic medicine. Where is. You know the which medical community were using. Was a match you stopped he still has Mercury. And they don't use bloodletting so it hurt when he went to that actor. The chemical director to make you feel better so he would claim that you are nearby. Where the first while it does make you feel better but it really wasn't sure. But you'd be gone by the time that would happen. A lot yeah well then. I'm just as they were talking with Michael hall leaves a reproach as his book is called Jack the Ripper suspect doctor Francis tumble team we're gonna continue. The conversation on the other side of the break. Remember rule take your phone calls in the next hour to 8446877669. This is. One of the most fascinating stories of the last a couple hundred years anyway and it's so when the just continues to have life obsolete you listen to Jason JVB honor elegant radio. And Chad for her her story has fascinated people for a 130 years and it's gruesome. It's mysterious. It's arcane it's. It's a fascinating we can't really describe it any other way and it just it's it continues not only to live on in the stuff of legends but it lives on. As a real true life crime. That has been unsolved and our guests nightmares and I end of nightmares exactly in our guest tonight is Michael all week. He's a ripper all ages his most recent book is Jack the Ripper suspect doctor Francis stumbled seek. And depth though this is a particularly short segment Michael so wanna take a second here just talk about your other books as well you've got several books on the Jack the Ripper story of one of our listeners. Was interested and learning more about this in getting started with your books which of the books would you recommend me start with. Well actually. I would sit there prescribes that the nonfiction short double which are not action that the nonfiction. Widget does I think big gap in understanding some of the background. We are at fault Jack the Ripper and Francis stumbled the NYT eighteen became a suspect. So even though my latest book Jack harper suspect actually stumbled each. It's you know it's by itself that nature and it everything here. But even the newer information but I would say that the response first. And then narrowed in the then you can also go into the the next one. Now are some review of sorry no no in this fight in the whole story behind France's tumbled he's always. Been really interesting I have strong ties to Rochester is born intimidate the New York we are we lived in Rochester many years and my aunts and uncles that are immigrants are still there. Enter iron or warming eons telling me about. About the whole idea of this guy being Jack the Ripper because I guess he worked at a hospital that was only a few blocks down the road from where my grandfather still lives. And at some point he cleaned hospital there and he's he's buried others isn't is there in Rochester yeah. He just yet he's sad that the church or it's up poker. Then now what's interesting about that is a Stanley great site. We is that. If he is mother and father buried there and it is. For older brother warrants. When you look at it's. It's a granite. Pillar grace create essentially it's expensive and so Chris Tomlin was the one they have the money so he can eat paid for it. It is father died eighteen to do one as mother at 1873. So that's when he editor erected you concede that in the slot where it says may you rest in peace. It is rather large died 1898. Saw on the side he see that that says in Latin may he rest in peace. And so that in nineteen out three references public baton Saint Louis. Even nature that says it needs. By his body to be buried there. And his name them in the lower right corner and curiously it does not saying it may he rest in peace just to name. And there. And so back to your books. Michael EU have you written fiction about to reject or two stories well. Yes that's the purpose opera what capitalizes the gap. True story that com. At the same kind of reformer who work during. There were a series about Jack the Ripper there's an engineer looking at they're eager to the great buying a lot in Weston that he was like a tax Jack mister Hyde type during the day. And an engineering and made eight. Medical mean nick looking for the elixir of life by taking herbs and then putting the fluids of the uterus would like began in there. And so what happens is. Jack the Ripper I doctor check on the track it was actually being shown that the light scenes either in the lot welcomed Weston London. At that time of the murders and so and it showed the first the opening day while made the papers the very next day. Martha came remove murder. And so a lot so then interestingly. That the the but these lysine either the businessman who was bombed stoker altar of Dracula yeah. And his best friend who assert Henri Paul Caine who was the boyfriend of France is comfortably in the 1870. And the people that worked at the lights in either they yet join this company selling group called to order the cold and that's gone. They're primary goal is to look for the elixir of life. That's all these kind of connections and here's Tom talked and there are certain that because it didn't hardly used this very year that director. And so all of that was happening at the same time so I don't know I mean it's not quite intriguing thought so there's more to a lot of details of attack. It's it's kind of an interesting thing that we had these shots tumbled as always kind of connected to these heinous people even during civil war to a. That is fascinating new we will get into that in more detail on the detail on the other side of the break. And we will take your phone calls after the top of the hour break before four. 6877669. This is a story that continues to fascinate her guest tonight is Michael Hawley he's a reproach as the recent book is called. Jack the Ripper suspect doctor Francis stumbles it. And a lot more to come you weren't a quick break you listen Jason GDP on reality radio back. It's Wednesday. On the West Coast first then he's just when you start somewhere. Renewed myself Jason caused me always sauce and Jeannie Johnson. And welcome to these summer solstice this is the point where the sun reaches its furthest point into the northeast Northern Hemisphere. Longest day of the year for the Northern Hemisphere so what do you do this long stay you can stay and actually tomorrow tonight but it reduced. Mine is. The nine and yeah there was some. Public since it is national solstice day summer solstice day they recommend you get up at the crack it done on it as soon as it whereas we're all as we go to bed at that point. And you stay up until. Sunset and enjoy the longest day of the year that's at the recommends are actually stay up until when we're getting right. And sniff. That we're basically no sleep as what it means. You're welcome to the program everybody we're going to be talking with Michael hole he's a ripper ripper alleges were talking about of course Jack the Ripper. His new book is called Jack the Ripper suspect doctor doctor Francis tumbled seek his website is Michael L hole lead dot. Com we'll have that conversation just few minutes tomorrow. Rick Wagner at the ghost doctor spiritual healer will join us to talk about. His ability to connect with energies and entities around his clients to help them understand. Any unexplained pain depression and thoughts of addiction in or suicide and helped them discover their own authentic voice again and that's suicide word keeps popping up recently. We fed. Some celebrity suicides recently and this is something that's just so it's just such an ugly ugly thing and it's it's tragic as well and you know just keeps popping up. Yeah and really does. And every Friday of course is the best of the honor Hilliard in the next week he has some great shows planned we were we talking with two way pet psychic channel community leader. On Monday and then Rondo hold psychic medium as well so be the second cast. And you know we've just a machine to an end check it out if you haven't yet had go to FaceBook dot com slash beyond reality reveal its FaceBook page forest. They had to be under really radio dot com to find all the stations we aren't across the country listens constantly being updated its check in frequently can also download the free iPhone an injury doubt. Which allows you to listen life catch at shows and more on the go or listening right from the website just click in the pop up on not listen live button on the upper hand or the web site. And enjoy it right there Fidel the show from iTunes to us a favor and just rated for ourselves push it forward. That's what it's all about. It is all about that be known also it's all about it's all about the United States has decided to step up its S efforts. To protect earth from asteroids and comets. Take this it's important story and if this were killed the dinosaurs so we should probably protect the US government. Is stepping up its efforts to protect the planet from incoming asteroids that could wipe out entire regions or even whole continents. Witches as you just said. What wiped out the dinosaurs and as recently as 2013. A major. Meteor. Enter the Earth's atmosphere and blew up over. I'm gonna ask Russia. If you remember. In 190 wait actually. A meteor landed us in Russia. Leveling 770. Square miles of forest area. And their pictures of that and if that land in need metropolitan area or eight you know any kind of populated area it would be millions and millions of casualties. Arsenal. Or you mention it first aren't we week's miss it we're making fun of this whole space. Group stuff that they want him put up Bada. Imagine first off we really. Cern and ending up on how long before people start directing asteroids to certain. Certain continents right so like they bow to illustrated just randomly is hit by in this Massa master and then it's an internal disarmament didn't and didn't have to be a nuclear or conceal that it could become an offensive weapon. He's and your true if you think about it. Well there's no quick solution to this yet but the United States and NASA has so I decided they're gonna start putting more energy and money. In two developing systems that'll a detect these. Of these large objects floating their hurling through space earlier. And then find ways to deflect or destroy them before they can hit the Earth's atmosphere. So far NASA has catalog 181310. Objects of false lies sizes that. Are close enough to earth or will pass close enough to earth that they need to be concerned. Only takes one mile ordered her to lie to hit the earth its speed its traveling to twos curry and just. I mean it possibly and the human race and they're talking in their Erisa. Physicists and so forth over who was stalking them too long gonna show us watching. There are saying even firing a nuclear warhead at these things because of the speed they're traveling and are always throwing a Stanley throwing a pebble at a. All corporate it's really not enough to do anything so we'll keep an eye and that hopefully it's not something we have to worry about anytime soon but so it was good to be prepared rated talk like Jack the Ripper. I am ready because the springer guest Michael Hawley back and they Michael welcome again to the show it's great to have you on. Thank you. So we've been talking about doctor Francis stumbles in and did you give us a pretty good background. Boy he is about kind of an odd. Characters kind of found himself from a lot of interest in circles a lot of weird connections was some critic Lee a notable people of this of the timeframe. Boy what at what point does he become. A person of interest in the Jack the Ripper story. Well what happened when we look at the evidence that's what it is credit I would data. What happened rises he traits degrees a lot of the New York world London correspondent. And what he's done and not November 17 to eat crow yet Leah got Americans ormat. And that gave him some information on and the white chapel murders investigation. In one of those was a subordinate story wasn't yes Atlanta stripper to support the story about date doctor. Kumble B with a case of New York being arrested on suspicion. And when they. Couldn't find dad didn't have anything haven't they re arrest him or this misdemeanor charge and they didn't say what misdemeanor charge was. But what apple was within the daily news. The the paper really found out that it was actually Francis company. So one would look at that and it looks like what apple hasn't before November 7. He was arrested on suspicion like or each other people work because they if you're single. If you were. I'm talking to any of their casual prostitutes. You were and you had any kind of similarities to eyewitness descriptions. You were picked out you were prod into the local police station. And they want to identify your name and your where you live. And so that's what they're doing is age they just didn't know or want and they doubled the guards basically October. Because he still couldn't find anyone so what happened though was when they have figured out who this lives. They yeah cabled headquarters which as scouting on the metropolitan police stated. And the according to inspect chief inspector little child. Totally had enlarged dossier already and that that's it was actually in an idealist investigative department. And what children inside that are and that dot CA or is that. According to little child. If he had this unusual hatred of women. And there was the series that word the Jack to where we're heading in the tropical knowledge. And so they were looking for someone possibly eight director. And then especially the last letter had a goal Americanism. So they stopped me and eject to Merkel was an American and popped in American doctors so. He's the bill it was a lot of ways and so that was a bunch of red flags and so. They wanted to continued the investigation by as the effect. What happened is some of the letters in the pockets showed that he was actually having relationships with young man that was illegal back then and so a lot. They could get him walk the streets and so what they did is they they try to. Get him hop off the streets by this charging him with gross indecency so what happened was they sent him off to. So this 2 central criminal court basically and when he got their arm he. Could before he got there ESP death of the country. And then that so that cannot started about great they're so lob. But and we that trying to how it works initially it was Francis stumbled. What is the the most striking evidence that they had. Against this particular suspect. And was there anything that was found after he left. England. That would have given them the ability to keep him in custody. The the problem as it may have anything at any. And then so they couldn't keep anybody and that's what they did have enough on gross indecency so we could've. Got him in jail if he wouldn't get nicked up in the candidate they could have done something. But in this case. What. The whispered in particular would Francis probably was this weird hatred of women. And then especially prostitutes. And so. There're couple reports newspaper wrote reports about its collection a uterus that's it does well also. Some of these things were quite. Red flags announced that made its chief inspector little channel. Think that he was one of the very likely suspects. At the time so a lot that would. Home base it but we don't really have any records. Of the oil was in that wild guess that's lost. In time. So is it what is it fair to. Is it fair to say that so basically all we've been able to work with at this point is circumstantial evidence and behavioral evidence based on his character. And his. The man known method of operations soon with the everything counts he was doing is that where this all comes together. That's what they ever will yet every one of the suspects because nobody saw that murders there was nobody that witnessed murders are people that witnessed. Some. Eyewitness from suspects. With possibly the one of the unfortunate. Which we still don't know the problem with the eyewitness testimony though is that the innocence project just recently. There were they looked at 239 cases where the conviction was a bit modern convictions or because of eyewitness testimony. And at least 3% were overturned by DNA editor. Just showed you the weakness of eyewitness testimony in many of these not Specter based on eyewitness testimony but back then. They didn't have the and they didn't have fingerprint and they didn't have I ever else just didn't add anything. Just popped with a could be the confession that somebody but. The the thing about an influence is timely because this. Strange hatred he was again. He was there he admitted to being in the likable district that time. And then he hand again he had some anatomical knowledge as well. And that's one of the things that interest them so. Now that we look at the workers picked up one of the things that the modern experts as south. I'm professor Brent turvy looks at them and what he sees he doesn't feel normal serial killers like a Ted Bundy. Like John Wayne Gacy where it's single sexual sort sexually sadistic serial killing. What he's seen anger retaliatory hatred of women bear the seizure and call. On a reassurance oriented. In there in what happens is that Matt just humbly to a key this a mutual hatred of women. And that he had and then so laden so we kind of matches it's kind of a model profile of that blacked out. The where is. Where that. Any of the suspects which does have that circumstantial. Mend but then again you know circumstantial evidence and putting people in in on death row. Yeah and but you said though after he came back he's back in the US there was and still not a murder that happened correct. We yet what are couple actually and then now about which incorrectly tribute to Lambeau Warner. But sometimes they do but not often they don't. In the case of anger retaliatory. What happens is that they tend not to kill I have to work because once they get. Almost get caught that's when attempt stopped at them also to narcissistic and colts. And then now one of the things about they'd look at all serial numbers as a unit anti social personality disorder narcissistic personality disorder like Ted Bundy. In French system we would then again to a tee. So wa. But yeah. How many murders happened after he was he was suspect in the US. I've murders in London yes. There were always murders going down because it was up well. But I mean some that met LC were filed Liz Smith seem profile as Jack the Ripper. Right the that that we caught economical five. The last one was very kill which was the only one that was an daughters that was November 7 and and tumbled it was there that time. But there were no more bad hip that signature or the get that deep throat cut. And enough. And then. The what debt. Professor turf we saw was that these killings were not on sadistic and sadistic meaning that do you enjoy it and then the pain and suffering of others. The what what the killer did was he killed them first before he started it this or he gets rating collecting organs they basically. So. But yeah. Are sort of take a quick break here and when we come back. We're gonna have very short segment but we're gonna get into the soul of the morning in the phone lines are open date for 46877669. You listen Jason JGB. Really do real. We'll be right back into us. Radio Jason GP weekend Michael. Only this Mike we've got gonna need you. Her to jump to new another break who have long in the last segment give archer web site. In any other of places that people can go to follow your work. Okay yeah. Michael Al Owhali dot com HA at the only lie and then that put everything that might pop. And then of course we so obedient my FaceBook page as well. That I even have a lot call the logic of paid we get my fiction novels. The watch makers whose nickname dealing with threats of companies so but. So that's probably the best place to do that. And then. So then we have these I'm lines formed with the JQ are forms cage for those actually will help. Get a better picture of what's going out with the experts. And that helps people actually get we'll get up to speed on where where everything is at this stage. Right exactly and when I looked great debate debate debate. I know we've got some people waiting on hold to chime in on the conversations of please be patient hang onto their break and we'll get to your calls as soon as we can. Yeah and the number if you do have a question or certain general thoughts on. Jack the Ripper it was a call 8446877669. Until freed 844687. 7669. We'll start taken those goals as soon as we get back from ridiculous and Jason TV. 687766. And I do have some people on hold and get your phone calls in just a moment. Don't forget to I check out the website to be unrelated radio coffee mug is there. Just click on the image of the mugging you can order one domestic shipping is included if you ordering in a nationally. This after re Chara out to us and move customize the ship in the shipping for you can talk ID still like it when you go earmarks this. Hits his scary time weekend they still exempt tongue tied them. And exhausted you really good time Saturday when you're saying and I did at a great time and a small friends and those just a wonderful time hanging out there but yeah it is a good good group of people Russo thank you to leave us all you are toys yeah I ran by remembers Tennessean passage goes removal and replacement it was a lot of fun anyway tonight we're talking about Jack the Ripper with refer colleges Michael holding his book is called Jack the Ripper suspect there doctor Francis stumbled seek. That's what do the a focus of our conversation has been. And a Michael gonna go to the phone lines here we've got Alison calling in from Providence or I would comment hey Allison welcomed the show. Well I think under the so glad the settings longtime girlfriend lives in London for years time ago. Antarctica work with mark find it intolerable but ensuring you're kept careful about them. On the thing about this to come production currently is that he was in custody and then united Mary county the committee last and most intimate community. And he's only leading custody and police in jail. He was Ngo for growth. Fold against the man he was probably get a hair and complexion of the cult and that. And again on display Hollywood in most case you're curious you know couldn't kill man yeah you know me and most of or sexual content can go to those kill him. And and so it has the benefit charity the ten down in in jail he went into. When ray caddie was killed just since then I think that you can technician and certainly not mean that you think it did very caddie was killed by someone other than in the film can be no mention that her. It is critical now what he's like. Oh I he absolutely was not in custody what happens this. What we found out recently is that. His first when he was received into custody. Were probably prison. That was where remand hearing that was November sap. What happens then and is there on November 14. He had his committal hearing in the student here is designed to go deep economic and be committed to the next step central criminal court. So that was. November 14. He posted bail also the same magistrate gave him bail on November 14. For the committal hearing and so it posted bail so what happens is that the previous remain here and was the same magistrate. So there would be no reason why he would not allow bail. The problem is we don't have any record either way what we do know is that three out here. Officials. Specific commissioner Anderson. Chief inspector little channel and I inspector Andrews all. Stated that publicly. Was a suspect after the killing murder. All three of those officials if she was in jail altered those officials stopped Mary Carey was Asia to ripper victim. So that he was in jail. None of them with a sense that. Especially when British Lott shows that because. These magistrate had the ability to allow mobile at Permian hearing. And that he can he did here they'll have to committal hearing world or more of the Evans was given. That it's highly likely that he he's. Bail it to remain here. So that would mean that he would have been free so. So I was a very chilly it ripper victim some experts don't think so but. I'm I'd and doesn't matter because I know that jet Fred just calmly because. He wants out of that because it's reached out yard officials stated he was suspect after the killing voters. Why would they say he was suspect if they knew full well you would be in jail. Especially when British law allows for bail. So the when. People saying that it was effective within. In jail that is absolutely wrong readers know. A track to actually against. British law so that was actually one of the things about that system lives are so many misconceptions or don't think that this talking about because he was gay I remember. There was actually a metal back yet both male and female parts. Not that he was. So but he did leader men and young man that's so. But what happens is. The only reason if you look at. Couple things what is. There are cases. Syrup on homosexuals serial killer is killing me out females. But indicates what France is probably it wouldn't matter because where. Homosexual men like Jeffrey Dahmer John Wayne Gacy when they Q at all. They will kill later. The same as you know that your men because it's the single sexual serial killings sickness which sexuality either sexuality. There's an impulse. He when. Professor derby looked at the repair victims he didn't actually. So sadistic killing because. Indeed we're Kilby. But they were mutilated after depth post mortem. And so. There was no sexuality too so he saw anger retell it during the case of anger retaliatory. Absolutely. What will happen you don't have it's that has nothing to do with. Sexuality so for him to kill the reason why he killed them is because. He hated presidency he actually heated. Didn't hit all women the only view women. That that. Worse attractive to young man the if you bleed young men. Should. The you know what's more the I'm not in heterosexual relationship so. That's why he especially prostitutes and and so there both cases it's a misconception of all all adults. Alison thank you so much so for bringing in that point to images of one of their you know one of the questions that that that keeps surfacing. We don't have a whole lot of time left and I want to shift the top secure a little bit we've been talking about doctor doctor Tom received here most of the night. But there are some other pretty high profile suspects and how to they range. In your estimation. Michael like somebody like HH Holmes that theory is men circulated. More and more commonly. It was he somebody that that. Enters your you list at all in his first suspects. Well that of what happened there are great grandson out mopped up what he did lenses. Is ideal as this is that your position cancer killer. At that looks like he was their record at championship title except for the kicks back. During the autumn they can mediate. Therefore he was in London killing these women. Now the problem though is we just received. Evidence that it was an election year so November. We have record of him being in Chicago. And we have one of his children was born nine months after October reaching 88. So unless you know some other man that continued. But. So. There are some stumbling blocks that you never heard the other single and when you watch the show. It was fun to watch yet. But the when they said that they collected fifteen composites of eyewitness testimony in a look almost like HH home with a proud as one. There's nobody saw the murders there were no eyewitness. So that's one problem the other problem is when you look at any eyewitnesses. Possible. Suspects. They only gave if you read that they argued quite maybe color here but someone thinking that we need to look at photographs of that composite. It's patient IA EG nose looked exactly like homes that bet on the when there is no I don't testimony showing what is I'd like. So loud there's a lot of stumbling block actually with a home there arson suspects again but it says I. Fully appreciate everybody researching all the suspects because again. This indicates well really never gonna find out who get two or three years and then. You know like. You know I you know. DNA. You know there knew when I can find any DNA as well. Even though that. And have been part of the one of the I think that's been in the game as well. So he personally for me is not there are a couple of my light through it. Polite guy. Or the other one that. Are out there that are some good possibilities. And that you brought up the point of the DNA and technology is there any technology that that either we're. Stern to introduce into. You know crime solving today that ultimately may be able to help us with this. Is there any evidence. Anything physical that we might be able to run a test on down the road that'll give. Doesn't have the DNA that probably is as you know what to do that victims that it via a large chance that we find any mail being name on them. And that Charlotte these so poorly into DNA now that was signed. The Catherine at a apparently kept an adult and it Scotland Yard. Police constable was their new it was a famous murder actually took the show away. And any pass it down Sammy you're the problem can happen at those who was not murdered in the jurisdiction of Scotland Yard. They were he she was murdered in the metropolitan I mean in the city block. So there would be no reason why a scalp when your cleats council will be there. So they've never entered that question. So and we also know where that that child has been for the last twenty years or so. So there's still some conflict was that it's still so present three million dollars. Yeah that's all right that's right right one other question this kind of off topic here you recently joined to turn normal group. Yes yes. The little paranormal. Run by idea Heather Madison she's. And now it's an interesting I know that because we work usually your people at about 40. And then now because we work with the Mason Winfield who is candlelight the guy around here. And Uganda that she's made a comment about Tom Lee and as one of the 1990s what shadows of the western door but. We. We're going to be working two days we. And until you hear I'm the science guy. And I was supposed to bring in you know skepticism. And everytime others doing something. That Kate to Mikey who has called special K. Start acting now. And so it's kind of like stretching my world view so it in the final way. And then now I mean this was really cool stories. Socialized you believer absolutely it's always going to be a believer but he got to keep that the skepticism. And the other him and by the way that would really be zero. Because when you what goes on terms that when you flat out to me when I watched review unit I personally I thought you had the best. Objectives skepticism there are people that are denies the dirt disrupted or subjective. So which I was very. Which was very intrigued. Well thank you thank you very much. So what's next in this search what's next in this mystery do we have any path forward to get more answers and maybe ultimately the real answer. Oh well. At least the more it's called reliable now we're building up without the knowledge and the more more we get between those public beaches. There's actually a book three coming out which are Branyan and Harcourt said because we've actually discovered even more staff which I promised not trying to give any details yet. But there it. The the trouble began I was everywhere and then so we're planning Morse a more material so. Could eat maybe not be Schechter per absolutely but every time I turn over a stone there's something damning to. And then we're also looking in 18871988. Where he was. Aware he was living at the time of the murders where in he had to have that movement. One place and other each month so were actually getting closer to that too. Well now when it comes down to tumbled he wasn't there are also information that Hugh is possibly some out tied into the hole Abraham Lincoln thing as well. OK that'll do a first on the radio right now you're supposed to know what's gonna happen now out with a rebuild this. We're goods are told that there aren't traditional thought. Let an eight or 1865 remember I was Lincoln's assassination. It's not that different that probably was hanging out with John will boost. In Buffalo, New York 1863. And in August. This character has denied ever meeting general who this character and record. This character is in me I mean did as you said earlier the number of connections. That he made with the important historical figures of the era is is is it's closer rom it's remarkable it's almost unexplainable. What what he was trying to do back then he wanted to try to be in the limelight and you know even though he was meant an anti social personality disorder he was there to make money at that time appreciate Canadians all about money he had the money here but well he could go places. And even during. The Lincoln's. I. The when he had yet infusion of New York City before he became the president he was already elected so. Tom will be isn't there riding his horse great match to Lincoln's. You know carriage. They just speech just find the places. But post 1888 try to find as very. So sorry I didn't needle to cattle on the bag with a hole in on the connected to John Wilkes Booth at. All nine united don't get the it would mean war. All eyes it's just something had heard in the past and I am and always wondered if there was any truth to it so I guess there was and I. Are you so we're we're basically at a time Michael Lewis Bennett a fascinating conversation and really really please we hedge on the show. A once again give your website down let people know where they can find out more about your work and where they can by the books. Okay great and probably the best thing that my website they have at all there's. WW got Michael Al Owhali dot com HEW WY and then now from the very easy you can go anywhere from there even going to be the difference social media places that the experts are. The statue missing debating this. What Michael thanks so much for coming and I and all of us and we definitely we look forward to talk commute M at some point and assignments more information. Great well it was great speak with both the. Grab a great nine. All right so we're gonna take a break when we come back we'll wrap things up we'll talk about who we've got coming up the next united some great guest coming up from beyond reality room. Com the content deliciously deceit to on the gets stuck in your teeth this argument. So what do you think you think you'll they'll ever be answers and projector Pirro the only way I think shall ever be any solid. Definitive answers of somebody uncovers a diary or something from somebody like it's hidden in a in a you know chest and an attic somewhere. And is found to be also a story I'm Jack or for an angelic chronicles things in there that you know them only the police would have known that kind of saying. A than that I don't there's no physical evidence there's no there unity they can't do any DNA testing. There was no way eyewitnesses and in this just it's just almost an insurmountable case to solve otherwise it's telling the Golden State killer that they are steel identified because of DNA right and so forth. Like if they had. Some something like you know hair samples or a ball owners or whatever from a victim from a as a suspect. And then somehow along the way they pick it tied to a victim in a wood DNA testing may be one thing they don't have any of that. So there's just nothing to go on. Especially back and I mean things so in such contamination a crime scene scattered to today Canon and the nearly the same to him. Well definitely a big shout out so much to Michael all come and hang in Galveston in just talking about charter burned telling us his thoughts and the evidence that he's been you'll find over the time. Mean she tune in tomorrow and I were to be talking with Rick Wagner the ghost doctor and spiritual healer. So aligned it's been inching shelty haven't yet head over to FaceBook dot com slash beyond reality radio like FaceBook page for us. And had to be under really radio dot com you find all the stations we Aaron across the country and that this is constantly being added to news check it out Austin. And I download free iPhone and android temporary Terrell is lessen the show look at new show past shows on the go and so much born on the show from iTunes and rated thrust his hopes bush afford makes it easier for people find. This can pretty much do it for us tonight Jason JVB and really you reel catch hill tomorrow and. And I don't know ingredients used to play Jason thanks GB Johnson into this one I'll simply tell incidents with. It's can only be on video in real news. Yeah you know it's stuck on her face in the agency hello Hayden sent inspectors will Jason long slow and chiefs host doctor first TV Johnson following. TV chief paranormal if you talk to being just on beyond Rio Rio or you have a suggestion for guest contacts with the idea that slick Eddie Edwards at gmail.com be short visit our chat room as well I'd beyond reality where you dot com thanks for listening.