WBEN NewsRadio 930>Audio & Video on Demand>>Prof. Bruce Bryski & Political Reporter DaveLevinthal- On Hillary Clinton & Benghazi Book

Prof. Bruce Bryski & Political Reporter DaveLevinthal- On Hillary Clinton & Benghazi Book

Jun 1, 2014|

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Now here's W. And why don't we -- this to talk politics at the end of the week there was a lot of discussion. About Ben Ghazi and Hillary Clinton what I did do a similar discussion for the rest of this hour. Coming up at the bottom of the hour and Dave Leventhal joins us from Washington he's with the Center for Public Integrity. We're going to be taking your calls this hour to 8030930s. The number. Is Hillary Clinton invincible will she certainly get the democratic nomination. And what about the Ben Ghazi effect earlier this week on Friday she went on the defense about her handling. Of the 2012 terrorist attack in -- Ghazi some chapters were released about her new book comes out on June 10 it's called hard choices. And in the book she accuses Republicans of exploiting this tragedy. Here's the actual quote that was -- says she says she will not be part of a political slugfest on the backs of dead Americans let's talk more about all of this. Bruce Bruschi is -- doctor Bruce Bruschi the communications department at SUNY buffalo state. He's one of our regular political analysts and commentators Bruce thanks for joining us today -- What do you think of the chapter that was leaked. You know it is a sign of things to come he's gonna have to deal with this issue Hillary if you run for president it's obviously not going away. It hasn't gone away you know since it happened and you know he was kind of in charge when it happened so if he's gonna have to explain away I think he's gonna end up doing. Is. Basically saying that. You know this. There's probably more than meets the -- -- if he's gonna have to. You know -- -- full fledged press conference and basically just say here's what happened that this is the last time I'm -- deal with it. In terms of it leaking well it. You know Lisa very interesting. Anybody could only dead including people who are friendly to look at Hillary so. You know whoever leaked it there was a reason. And you know it he showed that it's going to be -- issue that she decides to run. The Ben -- attack came in about three or four waves over a two different locations there. And ended up in several deaths the ambassador and several special. Special ops forces. But beyond that a lot of the details as part of the reason why Republicans say there needs to be investigation. Do you think that that this will all now be laid bare prior to the investigation that will get some sort of timeline here. Timeline hard to say I think that it will be only bare hand I know the Republican this is all this is really what Republicans were looking forward waiting for. They look I think they have every right the world to do. More than. Investigation this is a very tragic event in this country's history should not have happened. And quite frankly there's no reason that it should've happened. The Associated Press is out with an analysis this morning talking -- -- and the opening sentence to me isn't stinger -- -- you comment. Two congressional Republicans and Ghazi is shorthand for incompetence and cover up. Democrats here it as the hollow sound of pointless investigation you agree. I don't think it's pointless Islam I I think we can always learn from mistakes and certainly the the government. Military -- can learn from their mistakes and hand. It basically though if it's. To -- here's what I think the bottom line is the Republicans see this is a weakness. In a chink in the armor of Hillary Clinton and I think they're gonna do everything they can't to look capitalize on net so. Yet again this isn't going away and it's the one issue that I think that they can. At least make her look bad -- Stand by Bruce we'll open up the phone lines now 8030930s. And number SUNY buffalo -- Bruce Bruschi is here we're talking about Hillary Clinton. Do you think she's invincible do you think that there are Republicans out there that could be her. What do you think about the Ben Ghazi investigation and of course -- the jumping off point for us this morning is this entire situation. With the leaked the pre leak of a chapter of her book it's called our choices. In it she basically says that the whole band guys investigation is as a political slugfest. Something that we're trying to make points on the backs of dead Americans 8030930s. The number. More broadly Bruce let's talk about her candidacy in general beyond Ben -- Is is Joseph Biden a threat is there any other Democrat out there or are conventional wisdom fait accompli -- that she's she's that the -- Well everything you know everything that I -- Heard is that Joseph Biden is seriously. Considering. Making Iran and it would be silly thing to see if that did happen. You know defeat -- in Hillary have a go at this who would President Obama. Support that sort of thing outlook it honestly I think that if -- they're. There are no guarantees in politics. Like you know if Hillary look -- issue in last time around than this guy being built Obama came around. And so you know there's that you can't take anything for granted. However. I think if she decides to run and I'm -- and he's already got organization in place they're they're people ready. At the moment she enough just to start. You know the start with all the behind the scenes in the you know feet on the ground in the in. You know everything was social media so. I think he's got all the people in place if she decides to do -- it she's got of these these. Odds on favorite to to get it -- win. My understanding is that a lot of the organization that's out there now for her is kind of a proxy organization grass roots people that. Maybe a step beyond a draft movement but certainly people that are specifically part of her campaign is a campaign doesn't exist yet and. I think -- and -- an remembered he's already done this once before so he's gonna call those people that she's saw most of qualified. That -- running her alleged campaign to bring them back. And other groups and of course you've got. -- Ace in the hole with Bill Clinton because he is just. Anyway talk about a campaign here and somebody who's gonna do everything he can't get her. Elected so I think got a lot going for our Jill Biden. You know he could be killed by some people don't take them as seriously. But he does have experience is that BP you know he's he's spinning. Congress a long time I I think that. If you think about it he's off to a formidable candidate but I can delegate depending on who. Other Republicans choose to to run against the Democrats. 8030930s. Number do you -- who -- adults out there on the democratic side Bruce. You know what. I heard this the other day on the station I think that. Maybe there is -- -- Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton or Barack Obama. There's something that we haven't really even paid much attention to but it has been out there. In this case. I think that Hillary and what they Biden overwhelmed the rest of these possible candidates so I don't see that happening this time around. Some of the conventional wisdom is that Andrew Cuomo would get into it if Hillary. Didn't run. Yeah perhaps I think that's why he's making every every can't -- just you know win this gubernatorial. Election in a landslide so yeah absolutely. Is there. A chance that she won't run what what's your read on that I know we're speculating here but but that's that's basically a way to discuss it. Yeah I aprilia speculate is good politics I think that. It's possible. I think that she's been away from the limelight enough I think she's rested and ready to go I think -- confident in her record. She certainly has a lot going he's got a pretty impressive resume -- you know whether you. Our electorate to -- -- she stands politically. Got a pretty impressive resume IE. On the ID Utley put that I'd be shocked if he was not a candidate. Joseph Biden is even older than she is but people are starting to question her age. If she was elected. The the argument goes she'd be older just took a little bit younger. Then Ronald Reagan was when he took office. There's certainly been questions about her health some of them raised by partisans yes like Karl Rove put in general people have been pointing to that DC it is an issue. I don't think not and Hillary is not at all and I I think the people like -- Ronald Reagan and Bob Dole running. No I don't I don't I do not see that is an issue related to Hillary. So that was just. Republicans being desperate doing some because they needed to have something out there. Picked -- -- -- -- how desperate they are but I mean you know I I think Karl -- comments were just totally out of line but but other than that you know eight you know. It is eight you know it's. It's part of a consideration for people are voting for for president. I don't want go too far afield here but tough to me about what you see shaping up real briefly on the Republican side. Jeb Bush. Marco Rubio. Who who's your pick do you think especially if if the Republicans go into it knowing that they could possibly face Hillary. God I always like de Marco Rubio. And now now here's something that I would say differently for the -- Republicans and they're very well could be somebody. That we haven't seen yet kind of below the surface for the Republicans. Our debt that media an excellent candidate we won't find this out obviously until. You know primary time but I think that I've always liked. I've always like Marco Rubio Jeb Bush you know I think in maybe a little bit like the -- that we had enough for the bush is right now. People have always said that -- would probably been the best president of all of them but I you know honestly. I think we get enough of those the bush family right now and I thought I would Christie at the lake. But still wake you know Chris Christie I really -- I I think that he. If you want city could be a formidable candidate. Before the traffic -- scandal he was involved and I don't even know if we can cause a scandal but before that incident came to the public guy. There was some pulls out there that showed he scored possibly beat Hillary you believe that. Yeah you know I think this scandal -- her. And I also think is him embracing -- President Obama a lot. People on their right took that the wrong way I see him. Yet each had a couple bumps in the road since then but boy he's hit the dynamic personality to great speaker. He's got a pretty good ideas. You know he doesn't take any nonsense from reporters I think I think it would at least be fun to watch them. Oh yeah I that fun is definitely the word there. After nine days and number -- -- bring in a couple calls were we're just minutes away from -- commercial breakthrough can squeeze in John first go ahead you're on with doctor Bruce risky. -- gave -- -- so you know. Hillary Clinton's gonna get the same protections and Barack Obama did from the media. It's it's unbelievable we got right now the worst president probably all -- like I'm definitely in probably in history and it. The media has covered up for this guy. Until recently. Pretty much. All the time now Hillary and it's great protection and so it's going to be difficult for her lose the nomination. And also the election but you know -- track record you look at it going back as they viewed as a US senator from New York. For New York State. The key and the opportunity it back if you want a roadblock or church you were below one through the law. Passage of a reform are partly to reform the health care Burr bill and consultants say they got enough votes in the senate. Voted against those two people black. Both Hillary and her track record secretary of state with around the well -- happily eat -- -- Look what happened once you -- the -- local -- -- in in Russia. Track records or what -- -- What do you say Bruce the knock is she hasn't done anything except -- secretary of state. And there she hasn't done that well they say. Yeah well obviously that's the argument that John makes a good point and you know the protection of the liberal media the you know you're you're you're obviously some of that. My argument is -- John and just you'd -- play devil's advocate. Just think of the voting blocs that are out there. Women minorities. Unions that they're. Automatically they're gonna. Why don't the other meant that there and it definitely he toward the democratic candidate. It will help we got this going for her and then hit a lot of people out there OK we've got a black president what school for a woman now in that were were good to go. So I think that the person running against Hillary if -- music candidate. It's gonna have a -- all the time including the liberal bias in the media that -- on talks about how there's bias. Left and right somebody who studies media and politics I exceeded goal in both directions which -- -- to -- point. You know they're gonna point to her record say what she really -- This is one and maybe someday we need to do -- whole show on media bias a Republican organizer once told me that when you look at it there in their. Our pockets on either side. That that's certainly the Republicans the conservatives on talk radio. And that the Democrats and the liberals. Owned the Blogosphere and the Internet. -- I don't wanna go to -- this because we're right around the corner for a break would you agree do you think there is anything like a quote unquote liberal media. I do and and I think there will be -- right I think it depends on the medium that you're talking about for example I think that. Conservatives dominate radio there is no doubt -- just look at the top people. He can. Both local and nationally. Are at this stage in Sean Hannity Rush Limbaugh. They dominate radio. I think when you go to social media when you go to newspapers. You're you're starting to lean a little bit more toward the left. -- of course television sort of split right down the middle. You've got fox on the one side conservative you've got CNN MSNBC. Look also. You know but it has become something that. -- -- the issue I I talk about that a lot to make stupid since politics and media classes -- both states. But I think biases become less important now because when you tune into fox you know what you're gonna get. When you tune -- to WBA and you know you're gonna hit. And on and on an -- All right very good let's take a break we'll get some more phone calls WB EN 9:30 AM is buffalo as the peace bridge. It's hard line on news radio 930 WB here and this is Dave -- Professor Bruce Bruce he is here from the communications department of buffalo state college. We're talking about Hillary Clinton 8030930s. Number let's bring in stand in Rochester Stan I know you -- You wanted to talk -- -- earlier about the VA hospitals. And we're bringing in now while we're talking about Hillary to your mind -- these two connected -- wrapping together form. -- -- -- -- -- Okay what we're talking here is out -- Hillary and that is obviously right wing biased media are already be in Iraq in two years away. They're gonna make a mistake it's the women issue. You can if you happen -- -- up women the women have about giving Obama 62% of their role. Because terrorism has a lot that PR battle and what I mean by that is that. They've lost the women they must 47%. It brought the minority gave us this year investigate among others. They're a minority party within a major Republican Party. I don't see how they couldn't do anything they're they're -- tiger in total shambles. Yeah you know what this summit that he's true I mean I mentioned earlier the demographics. -- and of course you know the -- attack Hillary and you have the you're waging a war on women so it you know they're between a rock and a hard place. Do in terms of the Republicans going after Urban -- will and you know it is going to be. Part of the excitement of another presidential campaign but you know going back something and earlier to -- you know. She was secretary of state win you know what they got bin Laden I think al-Qaeda is pretty much shot Albanians got another foothold again but. You know they gave Hillary could argue that whatever successes was the go to war on terrorism and her diplomacy over the last few years to -- opposition. All right let's bring and being Clarence if -- history to holds true. He has a lot to say about what her strong point is go ahead you're on the air. Well first -- I'd like that we will open an investigation -- city tragedy of the cold. Under the Reagan administration. Which really without -- investigate it looked at the big quick. Delicate time in this country like politicians. Democrats and Republicans. Had worked together. How did that I -- -- been -- to shoot down position what additional committee. Where so Bob. Perception is reality. Doesn't matter what she did or didn't do. -- encompassing while the -- -- where they're true or not. Shock and other people about what against -- has -- risky what you wanna come find out in this new investigation. By this so called committee would do nothing but a punch up. Propaganda. Who don't know exactly what you have my -- -- Well wow -- Actually the what he's gonna say and hurt defense. He is that and I know he's gonna use that as an argument I think you'll agree. -- The Republicans refuse to give them more money. Four you know defending. You know American interest. You know throughout you know the the Middle East including embassies in compounds and that sort of thing. So she's good she is gonna turn. There's the tables around Dunn the Republicans or any committee that does any investigation. Now you know if you look at it fairly. May be an investigation would clear her baby and all these charges. Would be seen as being unfounded. Are you saying you know I I kind of agree with -- but I. -- immediate investigation if there really is I sort of skeptical as to what they're gonna find in it you know I think everything's already out there Tony really. I -- thanks for joining us were at a time pledge to do with this morning. I appreciate your ability to be with us especially at short notice it and that's doctor Bruce Bruschi communications professor buffalo -- we -- talking about Hillary Clinton for the next half hour and we'd love to have you aboard. 8030930s. The number now why Hillary why this week what do we can just talk politics I always to start the program that way. But there was an incident this week that puts her in the news I think that's why we need talk a little bit about it. Earlier this week one of the chapters -- her new book that's due out in about two weeks. Was released in that she talks a lot about and -- there is discussion that perhaps that big terrorist attack in. Ben -- will include a timetable on a book and we'll get more explanation on that but in the meantime the chapter that has been reached a -- so far. Includes a lot of defense of Hillary she says. That she's not gonna be part of a political slugfest on the backs of dead Americans that she feels the administration did things okay. CBS news chief Washington correspondent Bob Schieffer look at these chapters and said while. And -- means she certainly running here's what he said. What I read from the justice if there's any doubt about Hillary Clinton running a Protestant Hillary Clinton has removed those acting she's gonna run for president and -- take care of this book is I read -- chapter is it is it is a part of that. Let's bring in Dave Leventhal now from the Center for Public Integrity. Dave Euro Washington reporting you've followed a lot of this team do you agree with cheaper. It's all signs point to Hillary Clinton. Running for president -- to persuade almost no signs that point the other directions that are not running for president and the put the ball -- in the strip came out it was the strongest words which he has used so far you can go back to it which is testifying before congressional committee. And and -- is very very strong defense summer on behalf to the situation. And the attacks in and got it is the 34 page chapter. In a book that has yet to come out -- implement a former colleague of mine I was working at Politico what a wonderful story that seek help -- And Hillary Clinton's that in according from a right now I would not be part of the political slugfest on the backs of dead Americans. It's just plain raw and and it's unworthy of our great country goes to insist on politicizing the tragedy will aptitude is still without knee and quote. Uncertain is very clear right there at that this is something she's tackling head on -- Political future if he wasn't concerned over Butler and for higher office. If you want them are really that interest bit it in engaging in politics there any way shape or form going forward so all you probably would have written. -- consecutive -- she probably would have dedicated. So much time and effort to what the laying out its its proper self. As to why this is something that -- the ongoing debate over and -- it's something that you feels that she's in the light on and that he -- participate in. There are Republicans or anyone else I want want to continue want exploring and now prepping the depths what I anyone's estimation is this -- I think. All right so she is running now let's look at the primary process. On the Republican side I think that that the template the storyline is always. Well you have really conservative Tea Party Republicans and then you have more room perhaps John Boehner Republicans. And that candidates sometimes good candidates have to trying to -- all the way over to the hard right to the point that they're not electable once the election comes down. Is there anything we can say here similar. About the Democrats. Yes Hillary's running for president but will she do you think get the nomination are -- factions even in the Democratic Party. That can raise their story line and at least sketch out some sort of scenario where she doesn't get the nomination. Import -- -- us first about Hillary even though all the science reporting Tampa rotting and and it would almost a year sockets he didn't run. There are some consideration in the sense that they've been -- many parents are -- about. Our hotel and -- -- is gonna happen vacant help considerations she says she is absolutely fine. -- folks on the right including -- world wolf what it's that the little lucky excuse she's ill she. He's not right now that may or may not be true about our doctors we don't know. Exactly what's going on by saying it's important that there could be other considerations. Help or otherwise separate -- much. Say he has running -- -- for the folks out there who would light on the democratic side are there other liberals out there who would very much like to run for president. Absolutely one is right here is very close to Washington DC its mark on the Alley governor outgoing governor of barrel and that crew. Provide sort of a come a point a little bit street going to the left Hillary. I even know many Republicans that many conservatives -- say hey it doesn't get more liberal. And Hillary Clinton there are other people in the Democratic Party who feel that in a way Hillary Clinton. Isn't liberal and not so you can almost see and almost predict. And whether you're if she does indeed run that she would get at least some degree of challenge from somebody a little bit to the political left. -- based on market street and -- politicking over the many years what she of course was a senator from New York State that went through the member of the Obama administration as secretary of state. I -- explore that Parnell further play with me area of a bit of a game. Let's say Nelson Rockefeller is number one on the scale and Ralph Nader are Green Party presidential candidate Jill -- number ten. One to ten where it is Hillary fall. You might be a solid five but may even afford somebody who. There's it's definitely been part. The democratic -- for decades and decades is that standard bearer. Is somebody who. When you look at our record is it not been somebody who worked would be to be left the collapse of the Democratic Party. I don't think anyone you -- the Democratic Party or the Republican Party can honestly say that Hillary Clinton is some some. Who radical bleeding heart what this web poll of the sort of very types of -- that you mentioned just a moment ago itself. Output heard. Yeah if there's there is such thing these days as a centrist. Democrat was probably closer to that happened she would be here but true left wing of the Democratic Party that -- -- So she's -- taken number 54 and a half five. Martin O'Malley ES seven may be. I can't prop up. -- a couple of not to closer to -- Tibet has. And Joseph Biden now he's probably more. Analysts establishment you don't get more data establishment -- say Hillary and bill but but he's more of a conservative Democrat more toward maybe two or three. And maybe by purpose and I'm here he's been part of that the Obama administration or it he sold out his full term as ever wondered it would expect him to do. That -- years. That the Obama administration that is part and parcel of itself. Some folks it's that candidate Barack Obama has been incredible liberal -- some policies and of course that that would certainly be true issues perhaps it's it's healthcare and and yeah it is financial. Re triggering Pat -- several years ago but there have been plenty of other issues to whether it's. Is that actions where that your probation mean and I'd say transparency. It separates that there were people would say that while it is not acting very political and -- in those regards as well so. Up by the kind of an interest thing on -- is bad then maybe you'll might even put him closer. And we're Hillary Clinton's not that somebody would Libya particularly conservative. Among Democrats. Here's why am casting it this way earlier in the program and I know you're with a standard but I'll give your recap we're talking a lot about Governor Cuomo. He received the endorsement this weekend from the progressives the the labor unions in the states working families party. But he only got there by giving them concessions because there were a lot of liberals that said he wasn't liberal enough he gave concessions on minimum wage he gave concessions. On issues like. The women's agenda that he wants to put forth he gave concessions on Republican cruise control of the New York State Senate. And when I was talking about all of this earlier in the program with Ken -- from the New York Daily News he said that this whole idea of a threat from the left. Is not something that will just touched Cuomo blood that there's also a lesson there for Hillary Clinton listen. The other -- trying to send a message to Hillary Clinton. Because much like Andrew Cuomo Hillary Clinton as those kind of fashioned herself as a centrist than if you remember in 2008. Went to them and William actually -- -- Who was -- blue liberal wing of the Democratic Party that comes out to vote in primaries. That really have rejected her in surprise then and then went through Barack Obama. Who has the liberal choice at that time and this kind of send a message let you know that's that's still in play that same argument is still play that. He'll lead the military may have been the overwhelming. Makeup of the party but it is really the most influential political -- And they plan to flex their muscle so really Hillary can -- this and you'll get a little nervous as well. Do you agree -- I agree with a lot of what he said it and she's got like going to have to be cognizant if she does run of not having a repeat what happened. In 2008 where he -- did either Healy an -- enough people on the left. Predictably didn't appeal to it and number of people who saw Barack Obama as the change agent somebody who. Truly can come and and that represent me in nature. Market shift in direction politically speaking. From obviously the eight years -- the Bush Administration. But opted to have provided different type of a debt -- Democrat -- Q will that they have really been seen in many many years. And then that was obviously what made Barack Obama so attractive to a lot of Democrats. In part by and you know flash forward to today we have beat Barack Obama. Similar to we what we did in 2007. Waiting in the wings for the Democratic Party. Featured -- thanks -- I don't think most people I see somebody eat. Who is a Democrat is sort of built that same bill as Barack Obama did for the Democratic Party. I -- secured notes -- And you talk to a lot of Democrats. I do all the time both Republicans and Democrats and up from the same question which is well -- is there any real serious counter. At that point in time to Hillary Clinton assembled stricter heaven's sakes. Now there's really not the -- -- pollution. Let that a lot of people -- saying that back in 2006 and 2007. But that they're just doesn't seem to be that obvious challenger whether it hasn't Martin O'Malley and Andrew Cuomo. I anyone who argues is out they're already. The setting up an organization and who is well now it. Who provide that spark of energy for the Democratic Party that of course they would want her party would want to get a candidate that's going to run on a national ticket. I would get some calls coming in real quickly answer this one and -- wanna get too far into the weeds but if she's a centrist Democrat number five you protect. And if the storyline is that in order to win the nomination Republicans have to tilt more conservative. Do we then have an arch conservative going against a centrist Democrat therefore Hillary wins. So both parties have it is big challenger -- court on the Republican side there's much more packed in Colombo edit intramural fighting if you will. Taking place between Tea Party Republicans. And more. Called -- mainstream Republicans standard error Republicans. On that -- is really really playing -- any major way -- see this during the mid terms with somebody Tea Party challengers. To establish Republican candidates that the fight that ring inning and a big time way. On the right on the left with liberals Democrats. I it in the folks running in the mid terms he just simply do not see that type of actions taking place -- And it police -- you're Dave right here and now the Democratic Party internally -- a plants so the -- the Republican Party is. Internally that they questioned now reporting sixteen is is that going to change on the democratic side -- rebels finally got to say what what we don't want. It more centrist Democrat we we don't want somebody is not representing the concerns. Of the laughter even our -- representing. And that do we need to get behind rally behind. -- can almost say it's somebody who would be analogous on the last two what the Tea Party provides. On the right you don't see it in the here and now all that much but it's an open question right now as to whether. The girls are gonna get so excited and so agitated that they are going to rally -- behind somebody who they field. Represents their position and perspective more than say -- Hillary Clinton. If she's more of a centrist and there isn't that liberal push. Do the Republicans then look at that is there any any sentiment for them to say. Gee we need to Chris Christie not a Rand Paul. That's entirely possible and then away you could argue that that happened then 2008. With Mitt Romney becoming need -- ultimate there are 2012 what the army becoming the ultimate nominee here even now at 2008 which -- McCain becoming the nominee a lot of people on the right were periods that. With those traits that feeling like they would they weren't the best choices that into that and it's somebody like. Mike Huckabee would have been a better choice somebody and in 2012 feeling like it works and -- would have been. A better choice even panicking or send enough and that Ron. And a lot of wringing her hands and gnashing of teeth and scratching and -- -- to work. IAEA and the -- the 2012. If if President Obama would have been beaten. By and other candidates whose name -- and it on the and that's certainly Republicans don't wanna make that mistake again. A putting something up who is not going to appeal to the body politic in the all electorate in a general election but that's very difficult calculus that you have to make. He got elect somebody who's going to be pure enough to beat people general electorate but at the same time he represents temple where the parties and I you're gonna have a major major fight on the Republican side -- could have. Six eight and twelve candidates -- -- two or at least there in the financial opposite off thing I could be buying it. End -- to a legitimate degree for the -- -- the GOP presidential nomination. All right too many -- too much talking let's bring in a phone caller 2803. And I'm thirty Dave Leventhal is here from the Center for Public Integrity. Tom and buffalo thanks -- salon you're on the air now. I don't gentlemen I don't know the word debate a lot when you're talking about and got. I don't really believe there is a debate about the guy I think it's more of just as Hillary has stated her -- obviously it's just politics. -- you can't debate with the beef is big Olmert the Bachmann that world anymore and he couldn't debate with petulant -- There is really no debate we want to really get into the nitty gritty debating. These types of -- We could start with Ronald Reagan in Beirut in just start there with the public at. We sent him. Every political administration. And -- -- secretaries whatever department. And we saw that with a BA that was most recently. President Obama you can -- by people on both sides I am very very different perspectives. As to the legitimacy. Holding accountable per cent. At the top in the case. The BA well of course as secretary -- the air and step down nine as a result of a lot of Democrats would consider to be not his fault four they're being. All is here it's terrible things that that that it happened it that BA with veterans waiting months and months for here it's sometimes but. On the other side get the perspective of well of course pockets got to stop somewhere and why wouldn't you hold the -- and at the top comparable sales. On the Republican side you that you talked some folks on the Republican side about and county and they say well you know that he. Our issue with there is about politicizing it it's about holding accountable approach that it was ultimately it charge. That being Hillary Clinton has that report you talked about -- a lot. Democrats who say of course it's politicize this is something which is turned into -- witch -- -- as an app police should not he'd be held around Hillary's snack like. An albatross failure you're gonna probably get different perspectives on that story forward four for years to come but obviously the Republicans. I think you're used to -- in in congress in particular. As an opportunity it's it's a really really go after. Hillary Clinton and then try to -- in their opinion hold her accountable for what they -- away. A major major -- The secretary or the State Department under for one option now under the auspices of her as the leader of the that Department of State. We are almost out of time we haven't even taken a commercial break yet so and a little bit early -- and we'll go to Meet the -- at twelve noon. But -- -- day there's one thing that you just mentioned that we really didn't get too much. This whole situation involving the resignation. Of general Eric Shinseki at the Department of Veterans Affairs. Do you. It's almost. A gimme question and I realize the softball nature of it here and do you think gee Dave do you think politics was involved in that. Well politics are involved in any decision whether it's president if a Democrat there are Republicans not. Things are not done in a vacuum here. Very insecure Washington DC -- decisions are not eight without political considerations. When you're in the -- Political decisions. It almost would be it's silly not to think they'll. But it's a very good question at that they're not been so much pressure. On one side in this case there at the Republicans -- asking. Uh oh what a lot of people consider feeling very legitimate questions about -- think of the VA with which he -- yen in service today. Possibly so. Ultimately it was. It was a battle over the has been a very simple question which he's fit to lead that this organization -- department of the government that Serbs. And hundreds of thousands of veterans everyday every week. And ultimately -- the answer was yes or no it was determined by our beat the Obama administration. That that he was not. Ultimately at a place where they're going for -- she would be able to effectively serve. In the schools -- yes politics are so involved and I met in the alternative. They're being their checks and balances are being. A partisan fighting then well you know one party would be able to run shot over the other. Since we sometimes if Democrats and Turks and sometimes they're Republicans and their church. Idiots it's not necessarily all bad at everything that politics will be involved which of these decisions. You know you know the ultimate decisions seem -- some people's opinion shortsighted or not good. I would really that there we are plum out of time Dave thanks for your thoughts. That's Dave Leventhal from the Center for Public Integrity. Coming up next on Meet the Press the go look at the shootings in California the seventieth anniversary of that's straight ahead after these messages on news radio 930 WB and.